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That is what we are going with. however, we need look no further than zimmerman's words. we have tapes with zimmerman's own words. these a-holes get away. he's running away. i'm going after him. we have that. that is enough to arrest george zimmerman. and to have a jury and a trial listen to what happened and not the joe olivers of the world. >> that's all the time we have tonight. i want to thank you all for listening to that interview, for participating in it, jonathan and charles. >> thank you, lawrence. >> natalie jackson, thank you very much for joining me. rachel maddow is going to be ...

Their credibility when they are engaged in a violent act that becomes controversial? >> i think their violent history becomes a factor when they don't alter their violent behavior. that's when i think that becomes a factor. i mean, why would we have this system where we give people an opportunity to learn from their mistakes and grow from them? and george zimmerman learned from his mistakes and grew from them. >> what mistakes did george zimmerman tell you about, and how did he tell you he grew from his mistakes? >> i'm not -- i'm just saying from what i have seen, the person that i know, the ...

Saw you on "hardball" yesterday. talking about this controversial element of the 911 tapes in which people think they hear a racial slur. and for you it comes down to one letter, a "c" or a g," goon or the "c" word that goes with that. i just want to listen to what you told chris matthews about that. we'll try to get your light back while playing that type, so let's just listen to this. >> to me, it's a matter of interpretation of whether he's saying coon or goon. there are a lot of parts of this country where people proudly call themselves coons in louisiana particularly. i don't know too man...

Question. listen, we want to talk about this particular phrasing because it really has provoked a lot of outrage among african-americans. but joe, please -- >> i will answer the question. i will answer the question because it all boils down to interpretation. >> joe, let me do this. let me take a break now so we can really fix your lighting during this commercial break. then we want to hear your answer to this because you know -- you know as an african-american man, there are millions of people in this country who are very eager to hear you on this. we're going to take a break right now. we're...

Been an awful lot of african-american reaction to that, starting with charles blow. let's hear his reaction to that now. >> well, i grew up in louisiana, and i have never once heard an african-american refer to an african-american in that way. >> i never said african-american. >> you're going to let me finish. >> i will. >> and particularly, any sort of term of endearment, and particularly, why would you insinuate that george zimmerman was using that as a term of endearment, whether it's a "c" or a "g" after the "f" word about a person whom he found suspicious, about a person whom he was follo...