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Markets in the future. can i say something what thomas said? one thing -- you asked me this earlier, chris. what can the federal government do? i think it's very, very important to think about jobs for the population of detroit. the unemployment rate is very high there. the poverty rate is around 40%. i would love to see the federal government get behind a public jobs program for the unemployed in treat. there's a lot of work to do there and there's a lot of unemployed people. i see that as a nice marriage of a problem and a solution. >> this has been a fascinating conversation. jared and thom...

Republican governor john englar. thank you for joining us. >> good morning, chris. >> let me ask you what is on everyone's mind. what do you think about this bankruptcy and will it make a difference? can detroit be saved? >> i think, of course, detroit can be saved but this is the end of a long process, a long slow decline and probably a lot of decisions that were unable to be made for all kinds of reasons that developed over time and now we are at the end where there is 18 billion to $20 billion of debt and no way to service that debt. and it's going to be very, very painful. general motors b...

Although it certainly was wasn't in the kind of condition that detroit finds itself in. i ask this in that spirit and not to be in any way sarcastic, but somebody might look at this and look at everything from the response time to the number of empty buildings in detroit and say, why is this city worth saving? why is it worth all this effort? what would you say to them? >> well, i think when we look at urban reinvention we focus on people like me, and cleveland is more appealing downtown than in years. in fact, detroit as the governor engler pointed out too but assumption putting up new touris...

Outraged of my appointment. i wish there was outrage the last 10, 20 years. >> let me bring back our panel. former republican governor of michigan, john engler and jared bernstein. i think hearing from kevin orr, he isn't shuf if all of those 100,000 creditors are going to be paid. governor engler, let meet get your thoughts on that. how complicated this is and this city that means so much to you, what do you think the chances are that detroit will emerge strong? how difficult is this going to be? >> there is a lot of strength that is left in detroit that still there. the investments that dan ...

It's just a lot of things. at the time, one decision or a second decision. they don't seem so major but when you aggregate them over decades, you end up where we are today. >> governor engler thank you so much. we will take a break as we wait for the governor to come to the microphone and talk about the bankruptcy of the city of detroit. we will twaeake a break. [ command center ] this is command center.