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Doesn't know donald trump. >> joining me now, john harwood, and at the white house, washington correspondent for new york magazine. john harward, with the core political spiritual relationship question, do people change? >> no, they don't. in fact, lewandowski, when he said to chuck, the way trump is has made him successful, the way trump is has made the white house unsuccessful so far. if general kelly can impose greater discipline, that might be a good thing for the staff below him. the problem is above him, though, with president trump. his character, the way he communicates, the way he mak...

>> national security advisor is still very much in the running, and he said three other people are in the running as well. we've heard general petraus's name. you see the president trying to build espn as to who is building this in the wake perform john harward citing family and financial reasons. all of this is happening as we're learning more about michael flynn's interview with the fbi back in january. >> asking if he was certain that was his answer, and then he said he didn't remember. it is fbi does not believe he was intentionally misleading them and does not plan to press

Donald trump, i would spend all my campaign doing that. he doesn't want to do it anymore. >> definitely, that's a smart strategy from his point of view. he doesn't want to feed that fire. the -- his problem is that if donald trump calls in to every talk show, and whatever he says becomes the lead, it's pretty hard for marco rubio to have the other things that he's saying get paid attention to. that's just the reality that we're in. and the campaign has kind of been taken over by reality tv. >> john, you just said donald trump could last a while because he's got the money to do it. but six mont...

Appropriate. only a deviant, and i literally mean that, only a deviant would think other than that. >> some think carly fiorina won the debate. joining me now, john harward, "new york times" political writer and chief washington correspondent. john, good to see you. >> hey, alex. >> we'll get right into the post-debate survey. does anything surprise you about people thinking carly fiorina won? >> no, carly fiorina was the single biggest winner of that debate. despite the sad circumstances of that thing, empty hall, and the initial round of questions which amounted to why are you so lousy that ...

And all that, and all they talk about is tone. jeb bush said, well, mr. trump's tone is not -- well, we don't have enough time for tone. this political correctness is just absolutely killing us as a country. you can't say anything. >> meanwhile, as you know, john, the headlines in both the "washington post" and "new york times" reflect the angst over trump. is there a sense from the republican establishment that he's holding this process hostage with the independent threat looming, and how long do you think they're going to tolerate that? >> i don't know what they're going to do a lot about it...