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The debt ceiling is not the future. it's the past. it's allowing us to borrow money to pay for money we already borrowed. it's as if we spend money on our credit card and say at the end of the month i'm not going to pay it, and it wrecks your credit. it's not about future opportunity to borrow. it's spending already incurred. and if you look back at 2011, you can see the job numbers, the dip in the summer of 2011, when we went through that hostage taking. >> this is a matter of politics, carly, the reality is you have the business community, the white house will try to line up in a way that th...

Carl cannon there. we had a debate on whether we were going to have an independent president in the next ten years or so. i think we are. carl cannon also agrees. a bit of a divide there. >> we also had a real consensus about the importance of taking first steps of bringing people together like the congressional staffs and getting them together and then their members together and people actually talking to one another. and that's the first step toward reaching some problem solving. >> thank you for having us. >> yeah. >> it was nice. >> yeah. and as john ingler, republican governor from michig...

All right. welcome back to "morning joe." at 47 past the hour. >> oh, look who just popped up. >> what? i've been here. i've been here the whole time. >> how was monte carlo? >> i was not in nice. you have to stop the south of france thing. >> she just flew in from the south of france. >> it's been five years. in the five years of doing the show, i have never been to the south of france. >> allegedly. >> that's just not true. she has never been in the south of france, as she said, on a camel. but -- yeah, but you have been there. >> "washington post." it's time now -- oh, that was fun last nig...

Massachusetts legislation. and you know what? he should have not only run on it in the general election. he should have run on it in the primaries instead of running away from it. again, joe klein, i said it last hour, i'll say it again. and i disagree with you on daniel henninger and "the wall street journal." they may not have loved the specifics, but they would say it's federalism. back in the 1990s, john ingler and tommy thompson and a lot of other republicans, they experimented with health care reform in their own states. and, in fact, we bragged about how all 50 states would be legislati...

Of, a law he is proud of, that he hasn't been able to embrace it again because of the complicated primary dynamics. this is probably where he should have been all along, but he's now been so contradictory on it over time, it's hard to see it ever giving him the kind of political advantage it might have under other circumstances. >> you know it shows two political weaknesses on romney's part. the first is what conservatives have been complaining about, especially over the past month, mainly off camera, is that he just doesn't get conservatism. he doesn't -- he can't talk like a reagan or a that...