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>> this is so waco, john, isn't it? it's what you do as you go completely outside the law for years and years and years. you drive local authorities crazy. they bring in the federal authorities, because you just will not obey the law. and then you declare yourself a hero when they finally take action against you. like, we're -- i don't know. i just have no sympathy for these guys who build these cases against the government. the government. it's our government. it's what was elected by the american people. it operates under a constitution which they pay tribute to, and believe in. there's no p...

Regulation of safety getting on airplanes, so we go after the tsa. one after another after another. every constitution of the federal government is banned. it sounds like robert e. lee. i don't know, your thoughts? >> yeah, it's a completely phony issue, though, chris. that's not really what's going on here. and now you have politicians and people with megaphones on fox news and elsewhere, emboldening these folks, that think that they're fighting for the rights of all americans. it's a completely phony issue. they're not standing up for the constitution. that the constitution has a clause that...

And now he now marks himself as a hero. >> he's not a hero, chris. he's not a victim. he's no siymbol of and others have seized on. this guy is essentially a welfare cowboy, who has been kra grazing on those lands for free for 20 years, fighting the federal government. he's lost in court, and suddenly the blm, unfortunately, came in such a heavy-handed way, there were some incidents, and then these militia guys come in and suddenly he's a hero. now the guy is ratcheting up his rhetoric, chris, and saying he doesn't recognize the existence of the united states government, and they're going to t...

Now prominent conservatives have embraced bundy' fight as their own. they see it as an example of government overreach. they'll turn bundy into a folk hero of the far right. >> there's something incredibly wrong when a government believes some blades of grass that a cow is eating is so an egregious affront to the government of the united states that we would literally put a gun in a citizen's face and threaten to shoot him over it. >> huckabee, of course, also thinks north korea has more freedom than the united states does. so put that in context. john, this thing smacks of stunt, of stage cra...

These are clashing world views. it's not that these people are defying the constitution, it's just that their constitution, their reading of it, is a very different one that makes them the victim. the lawless partner here is the federal government. the illegitimate element here are the leaders of the federal government. how many times have we heard the government, the federal government is overreaching and lawless. and the president of the united states is illegitimate. it is a rhetorical device that resonates. and it's not just militia, secessionists and birthers, but it's a larger group of f...