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People are folks who have spoken out against what president trump believes, and i think in a sense it undermines the principles that our country is founded on and it's really an attempt to undermine the institutions that protect those principles. so i think the first thing that we talk about in the statement is the freedom of expression. from my perspective it's not just john's freedom of expression we're talking about but really the message doing this sends to other people other than yon who have security clearances who, for example, may be former government employees who are working in the d...

Sunday shows, saying the truth isn't the truth, actually shouting the truth isn't the truth. the president unhinged on twitter again, talking about rats and john b. being a rat and claiming he knew all along. don mcgahn was talking to a degree that actually he didn't know what don mcgahn was talking about. what can you tell us what you're hearing out of the white house and what you heard this weekend? >> mayor giuliani seemed like he was being evasive on prepress and to a certain extent he was. when you read between the lines of what he was saying and what i was hearing you get a sense the pre...

Community about the level of candor from between the intelligence gatherers and the white house? has the drama that so many of us focus on outside the walls of the incumbency, is this affecting our national security in the sense of the flow of information from the intelligence gatherers to the policymakers? has there been a chilling effect of some kind? >> john, on that specific point, that is the flow of intelligence, no, i don't think so. i mean people talk a lot about morale in the intelligence community. you know, it ebbs and flows, but i can tell you i was at one of the agencies on friday...

Down world now. this is not the world we're used to. someone like myself who has worked for seven presidents is not accustomed to a president who threatens to lock up his opponent, who attacks our institutions, whose truthfulness can never be assumed. so we're in a strange world now. and if the world ever turns right side up again you'll see most of us fade back into the shadows. there's other reasons too. >> lots of other reasons too. david cohen, as john said we are in an upside down world. nobody really expected to be quite where we are and yet let's just stop for a second and talk about wh...

Schmidt's story that he uses the word cooperator to describe mcgahn because that's a term of art for prosecutors. i'm not sure if he and maggie mean to use it in that sense here because to me that implies someone who has criminal exposure, who has been told that prosecutors are looking at them and who strikes a deal with prosecutors to cooperate in exchange for more lenient treatment. of course, it's also possible and perhaps more likely that mcgahn is simply cooperating in the sense that he's answering their questions. but it is intriguing since the president is the one who raises the specter...