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I'm curious, where are you on sal's numbers there do you they is the range? >> i don't have a basis for questioning his judgment on that. i'm not sure. i think mueller is playing this by the book. i don't anticipate that he will take out frustration with ellis by taking noir actiother action upgrade the punishment that p l manafort received. >> gene, is there a influencing, a point in this where you sit there and you say boye, jud, ju ellis is trying to send a message to mueller. >> it's not the first time. it has been that way from the beginning. when he expressed his displeasure at what the ...

Our own ken dilanian. i'm also joined by sal wi wisenberg, bob bower, and car carol lee here onset, eugene robinson. ken, let me start with you, you're outside, we have reporting going on inside and outside, judge ellis, we know he enjoys moments in the sun. is this going to be a very drawn out process in the next hour? >> it appears so, chuck. two things have happened already at the starting of the hearing that i think set the tone. one is that paul administramana wheeled in in a green jump suit. his days of $10,000 suits are

Consecutively. does judge ellis know that going in? and he assumes that going in? >> does he know what? >> obviously he knows -- does he assume another tough sentence is coming from dc so as he thinks about his she calibrating it? >> well, there is no question he assumes a tough sentencing coming from dc. whether or not he is calibrating it or says whether or not i'm not even going to think about that, i would sentence him to what i would sentence him to and i don't know. that is only what is in his heart. for me i think it would be hard not be affected by that. >> bob bower, what does mueller...

Have a slightly reduced insi sentence, but the judge ruled he will not get that credit and now they're in a 15 minute recess. >> thank you, ken hang on there, sal wisenberg, if you were manafort's attorney today, would you be preparing him for how long of a sentence? >> oh, he will go away for quite some time. my guess is, just total speculation, my guess that the sentence by judge ellis will be between four and eight years, if you made me pick, i would say about six years. which is a significant reduction from his guideline range, but also keep in mind as many have reported he faces a maximum...