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Crimes but no underlying crimes. >> i think that's exactly right. i think what i observed is that the independent counsel's office, instead of getting people to sing, is getting people to plead guilty to things so they can build a circumstantial case against the president in a report, completely misusing the judicial process. now, look, 19 interviews with someone suggests maybe they didn't like what he had to say in the first ten. that is an incredible number of interviews to get somebody to wind up. let's all relax here. if, in fact, general flynn was colluding with the russiansly he wouldn't...

That? talk about the erosion of norms and confidence that americans have in the systems we have in this country. is this yet another example of that? if there were investigations, americans waiting for that, how confident should they be if not by the swiss or anyone else that it will be done well? >> the president doesn't understand the nature of intelligence or wants to throw it out the window because it doesn't suit his own purposes. innocent until proven guilty is a maxim that holds in the u.s. judicial process. a suspect in a criminal process in the u.s. that doesn't hold in the intelligen...

Evidence at trial as frustrating as that may be, we don't have it any of it. if she gets up there she can corroborate a bit and there are holes, and he gets up there and he is credible and he says i wasn't there and i didn't do it, what is the standard of judgment? how do you decide whether or not you vote up or down on this, laura? what do you think the standard is? >> this is why it's painfully obvious. although many lawyers sit on the senate judiciary committee, this is not a form of law. i'm glad he notices the senate judicial process, i'm glad he's mentioned the fact he's never seen anyth...

Wouldn't object to that. but i don't think it should supplant the judicial process. >> we know there was a judicial process under way during watergate and the nixon impeachment process, yet the house judiciary committee, they went full speed ahead and they opened up a full oversight committee hearing in that area when john dean, the white house counsel stood up and testified and said what he said about those secret tapes. we know what that eventually resulted in. and i want to pick up this conversation, congressman. i know you are going to stand by with me. we have a lot more to discuss, inclu...

Problem that they separated these families and they have no way to get them together. >> so what does happen to the kids who they still haven't rekwlu nighted with their parents? what happens. >> those kids in the united states, at some point if they're never going to be able to reunite these parents, they're going to end up entering the information ter care adoption system in the united states depending on what state they're in and what judicial process that could be. maybe they're lucky enough to find a family member that is related to that kid, to those children here in the united states. b...