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And what giuliani says is that, when they got answers from manafort that they didn't like, when manafort said he didn't know anything about this, he put him back in solitary confinement and kept him there for four days. it's not the prosecutor's decision to keep him there. it was a decision the jail made. but giuliani making it seem like there was an enormous amount of effort being used by the special counsel's office to get manafort to incriminate the president. >> mike schmidt, let me ask you about pardons and read something the president said this afternoon to "the new york post." this is t...

The country. but this is where we are and it's a terrible thing. this is, i guess, his feelings about these three targets of the mueller probe. but this also seems to be in line with something you and your colleagues have reported about softening the ground for what may be their next legal move in a public relations fight. do you hear that as softening the ground for pardons for all three of those men? >> well, it's unclear if -- look. the president is talking about pardons. they've talked about pardons before. he hasn't talked about it in private. he has talked about it in private. the intere...

Plea agreement. we don't know whether that's actually the case. but the fact the president's lawyer is basically out there talking about how this was such a fruitful circumstance for them to have paul manafort inside telling them what was going on. i think it's a rather remarkable set of circumstances and i commend mike for the excellent reporting and getting that on the record. >> mike, can you jump in on that and pick up on the idea that sometimes your analysis when you come on is they do these things in plain sight, it must not be as bad as it sounds or that which would have constituted obs...

Rates. he's sending a signal to the markets that they're getting near that point. doesn't mean there aren't more interest rates coming but that's the closing bell. the dow closing about 2.5 points higher. that wraps it up for me. thank you for joining. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. stop me if you've heard this one before. the president of the united states might be obstructing justice in plain sight. again. donald trump revealing in an interview today with "the new york post" that a pardon for convicted felon and one-time t...

We've seen poisoning incidents in the uk of former russians who have flipped against russia. so i think that may also be what is keeping manafort from cooperating. >> glen, you're getting to the crux of the question i asked michael there. insinuating fear. it appears there might be some fear from him if he is guilty of doing what is being alleged here. >> yeah. >> yeah. michael, i want to talk about some of the other characters. rick gates is key in this case and flynn and papadopoulos. haven't heard from specifically mueller has gotten out of them. you heard glen saying that well, maybe he th...