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Russians, you're going to pay for what you did, you better cut it out, we're not going to let you get away with this? we have no indication, even up to the last meeting that trump had that this message was ever sent to the russians by anyone connected to trump or trump himself. >> yeah, and meanwhile, david, we do know that at least from reporting, jared kushner did say to his father-in-law, the president, that, yeah, he ought to fire jim comey, which doesn't put him in a very good light. >> well, that's also strange because kushner had this reputation based onion what a t, a voice of restrain...

That was. we have some push back from folks close to trump saying no, it was much less frequent. but clearly there is an open channel of communication here. as david suggested, it's not just between manafort or folks involved in this who are being looked at and trump, in fact we know trump texted mike flynn saying, stay strong. but it's also trump's team and the fbi with the report from cnn that right after trump asked comey to stand down on some of this stuff that priebus called the fbi, called both comey and his deputy director and asked them if they could come out and say something to refut...

Official role, you could see why the justice department would be interested. but, look, there's a lot here we don't know. the reporting is all over the map. this began with him being a significant person of interest, which is not really a legal term, and now being somebody who is under scrutiny, or just may have information that might be of interest to investigators. i think we ought to be a little cautious at this point. the only thing we can say for certainty is the mere fact that he is within the orbit of this investigation is something that is likely to drive his father-in-law crazy. >> he...

Point. i mean, there really is no way to isolate that dossier in the hillary clinton camp. what do you make of this idea that paul manafort was, a, advising the trump campaign or at least trying to, and still talking to them after he himself was under scrutiny? >> well, i think you see from everyone in trump's circles over the last circumstances months, effort to deflect and obstruct. this falls probably more in the category of deflect as ken reporting, kudos for the story, coming up with this alternative narrative. it's all about alternative narratives. i think as you get into the obstruction...

Politico who broke the story and david corn washington bureau chief political analyst. ken, this is a pretty block buster story. among the many interesting details is this one. that manafort, according to your story, discussed with other trump allies the possibility of launching a counter veiling investigation bayy ukrainian officials to damage hillary clinton's campaign. a way to distract attention from the parallel fbi congressional russia probe. the idea that manafort was advising this incoming administration to launch essentially a phony investigation, i mean, what? >> yeah, i mean, we act...