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Upper middle class backgrounds, kethledge doesn't come from that. he came from a lower class background. he's from michigan, outside of the coast. and he didn't go to -- he went to a very good school but not an ivy league law school, a harvard or yale, so it provides a sort of diversity that some people think would be good on the court. julie: i want to get to judge thomas hardiman before i let you go. after a phone interview with hardiman on tuesday, president trump called him again on thursday. not bad two calls from the president in a week, obviously an indication he was still in the runnin...

Fact moving towards selecting judge brett kavanaugh of the district of columbia circuit but with that said, how would a moderate pick like kavanaugh go over with conservatives? >> the question is is he really moderate? there's big infighting between the conservative world right now anne coulter of all people no moderate is a big kavanaugh fan. she's think he's very conservative. others don't think he is they would prefer amy barrett who has a stronger record they think and more likely to overturn roe v. wade if that ever came before the court. that may be a reason that the president doesn't ch...

Him. julie: not quite. he slammed democrat tester for voting against the repeal of the affordable care act, for voting against a major tax cut bill and voting no on legislation to ban late-term abortions. i don't think there's any chance tester will be jumping on the trump bandwagon. how will his slam on tester resonate with voters do you think? >> i think with states where there are people is up for election -- in states where trump is popular where there are senators democrats up for election they are really worried about getting on the wrong side of donald trump. look at joe manchin in west...

Him. julie: not quite. he slammed democrat tester for voting against the repeal of the affordable care act, for voting against a major tax cut bill and voting no on legislation to ban late-term abortions. i don't think there's any chance tester will be jumping on the trump bandwagon. how will his slam on tester resonate with voters do you think? >> i think with states where there are people is up for election -- in states where trump is popular where there are senators democrats up for election they are really worried about getting on the wrong side of donald trump. look at joe manchin in west...

Upper middle class backgrounds, kethledge doesn't come from that. he came from a lower class background. he's from michigan, outside of the coast. and he didn't go to -- he went to a very good school but not an ivy league law school, a harvard or yale, so it provides a sort of diversity that some people think would be good on the court. julie: i want to get to judge thomas hardiman before i let you go. after a phone interview with hardiman on tuesday, president trump called him again on thursday. not bad two calls from the president in a week, obviously an indication he was still in the runnin...