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It does sort of immesh himself more with paul manafort. before we get to the trial that is much more related to russia, that is when he is going to step forward? i don't think so. manafort wanted trump to think about what lay ahead. and the next trial is going to be a lot about russia and ukraine. >> frank, imagining to be what it would look like to see someone pardons in this circumstance, what do you think? >> well, knowing mueller and how he operates and thinks and how his team runs, i have to think there is a prosecutorial parachute. in the form of state charges. do not be surprised if we ...

Mueller, do you think those political boundaries exist? >> well, if you ask me after the election be a different answer than before the election. remember, he is in the final months of a republican majority. for all intents and purposes, he is most likely not going to enjoy that come january, not only this congress has to think about, but the next congress he has to think about and the effect this behavior would have on the election. open up a gusher for the republicans and they might lose the senate as well. i think there are two problems for trump. and one is the reaction that might happen e...

Daniels. the president directly involved. a lot of statements made about how the cases that have been brought so far are tied to mueller specifically or come out of mueller's investigation. this is one of those cases that don't have anything to do with the president. >> yeah, and we should note the timing here is, this is going on in late october of 2016. >> exactly. two weeks before the election. >> the payments that he made, the question was the position taken by people around this defending the president, defending michael cohen, well, this is nothing to do with the campaign. today he satur...

The boundary would be political. and i think what would stop him from doing that is the same reason he hasn't gotten rid of mueller, do you think those political boundaries exist? >> well, if you ask me after the election be a different answer than before the election. remember, he is in the final months of a republican majority. for all intents and purposes, he is most likely not going to enjoy that come january, not only this congress has to think about, but the next congress he has to think about and the effect this behavior would have on the election. open up a gusher for the republicans a...

>> no responsibility person on television, no responsible so-called journalist should be advocating for people to destroy evidence in a serious federal investigation. >> i don't think we will see him prosecuted. federal prosecutors give people a wide berth on first-amendment related conduct so unless there is something more specific to link it up this is what we categorize as awful but lawful conduct. >> listen, if he is advocating for mueller's witnesses to obstruct justice maybe mueller should speak to him and ask where the idea has come from? did the president tell you to say this? >> knowi...