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Want -- what do you believe is clear enough at this point that transcends politics and perspective? >> if you're concerned about someone calling something hearsay, i think you go back again to what the president said. do me a favor. right? he's not asking do me a favor let's root out corruption. let's get rid of your corrupt prosecutor. he praised that corrupt prosecutor. no, he was talking about his own gain. and what concerns me there most is that he might believe it and that we're distracted in the fact the elections are coming soon and we're not ready. after the last time, our democratic p...

Conflict. sondland said after this call the president doesn't care at all about ukraine, he cares about politics and his own personal interests. >> the other witness dr. fiona hill, she will make the point that there was this absurd notion that it was -- that some believe like the president and rudy giuliani that it was ukraine that interfered in the 2016 election. going against everybody else's assessment in the intelligence community. >> it's also something folks shouldn't forget. u.s. policy on ukraine was not fact based. frankly it's a kremlin talking point, right? to say it was actually u...

Investigations of burisma and of the 2016 election, that was american foreign policy. now, hill may think that she was trying to, you know, tether it to reality, but the corrupt exchange of dirt for american aid, that was the real foreign policy. and i think sondland made a convincing point of that. >> very important point, indeed. like lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, the adviser on the nsc, she too went to the national security council lawyer with complaints after that controversial phone call between the president of the united states and the new president of ukraine. >> you know, some...

Remarkable to imagine. and, you know, leaving an -- hanging an ally out to dry as a result of that. >> goes against everything that not just obama intelligence officials said. but trump intelligence officials including -- >> pompeo. >> pompeo when he was cia director. christopher wray the director. all of them said it was russia who interfered in the u.s. elections in 2016. not ukraine. >> right. >> fiona hill is important for another reason. she worked for john bolton who is not testifying. but she was in the mix. she was talking to him about this at one point when she went to him, he said go...

That contravenes world view, they reject the information. rather than adjust world view. and that's one thing the trump has shown. he is made many how many arguments can we count he made that are in defensible. but not designed to persuade and reach an audience that is independently assessing the veracity. they are providing that want to believe what he is offering. a vision he is going to turn back the clock. and reverse these changes that large portions of america don't like. and so, it the point is not to be true. the point is reassuring. >> it's to tell them a bedtime story. and basically ...