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The constitution of the united states." here to talk about just how enormous the moral and legal stakes are in this story, paul rieckhoff, founder of the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america and lawrence ccorb, retired navy captain. paul, since you're right here, you know, the president has made noises about doing things like this. lfs there was a pardon earlier in the year. how big a deal is what has happened over the last 48 hours? >> it's a massive deal. it's maybe one of the most destructive things he's done in his entire presidency, he's done some bad stuff, right? this cuts to the ve...

Second, why can't you do it for me? >> yeah. >> and don't forget at the same time trump pardoned an army 1st lieutenant lawrence who had been convicted of killing three afghans and had -- it was nine members of his team testified against him. >> trump's making people choose. choose me or choose your oath. that's the line he's drawing in the sand right now, and es perks the secretary of defense, has chosen to go with the trump and politics instead of our troops. many people are going to have to choose in the next couple weeks as well. >> you know, this is also going to cascade through the servi...

Criminals, pardoned war criminals to campaign for him. >> 100%. this is the plan. the playbook. >> they heard trump talk about how he'd like to have matthew goldstein, edward gallagher, show up at his rallies, having a moment on stage at his renomination. how big a deal is it institutionally for spencer, the secretary of the navy, to be fired and to write that letter, lawrence? >> i think it's sort of like when secretary mattis wrote the letter basically when trump had this insane policy in syria to get out in the middle of the conflict and i think he's making a statement. now, this is a lifel...