MSNBC Morning Joe October 1, 2019 11:25:00
Leader -- sort of like a leadership index. do they have empathy, resilience, are we seeing those qualities in president trump? do they have ambition for self or for the greater good? those qualities show in this and to the extent people can make it about his leadership and about himself as a president and his relationship to the country and the people, then i think it's more than just a substance in ukraine. but a little story can produce a big story. and i think that's what's happening right now. >> so, tom nichols, while we're talking about leadership and people stepping up, let's go back an...