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That also happens a lot in criminal cases. so, you know, what we are seeing is frankly not atypical in a criminal proceeding and in criminal cases, which there are confessions. that's why we have that term, and we use it often. that's why we have the term witnesses, because often there are people who actually observe the crime as it is happening. so hthis is what we're seeing with this case. >> i'm always fascinated in courtrooms when a defendant or their attorney argues, no one would be so stupid to do what my client is accused of the way he's being accused of it, when in fact many people are...

Legal standpoint -- there's no way whatever phone calls are out there, that they're just going to be given up. >> no. >> and we don't even know that the transcript we have seen, the rough transcript of the readout of the call with the ukrainian president -- we don't know how accurate it is. >> no. >> it's not a word for word as the president claimed it was. >> one of the deeply weird things about how the whole ukraine scandal has unfolded is that they have objected to disclosing basically any sorts of documents, any white house interviews, yet they have released the partial transcript of this ...