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That justices are an umpire, they make sure everybody plays by the rules, nobody ever goes to the ball game to see the umpires. you were banking on kennedy and not justice roberts here. siding with the more liberal side of the court here? >> yeah, i was actually cautiously optimistic that the mandate would be upheld. i'm actually delighted that it was a 5-ç 4 decision to be upheld. kennedy has been the swing vote for too long occupying the position that justice o'connor occupied before her and justice powell occupied for o'connor. >> we'll talk more about justice roberts, but there was also ...