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Supervision. those managers out there among the police officers who were giving them instructions and telling them hey, keep your exposure maintain your exposure. and that leadership that we're seeing at the first line level there on the streets tonight, i would like to see that going forward, as we get through this and get back to some sort of normalcy and that leadership on the streets, day in and day out, working with the men and women in the neighborhood. that's what i want to see. don, please please -- >> don, i'm so sorry, could i please just echo that? because there were some clips that...

Liason. >> you want him to resign, right? >> i do. >> what about the acting secretary, that person is sloan gibson. do you have confidence he can do a better job? >> i've known sloan gibson for a number of years, ever since he started running the uso, which is an outstanding organization. i think that he has organizational skills that, in fact, could help the department of veteran affairs get out of the problem that they are new but it's much larger than whoever is in the position of secretary. it is the bureaucracy itself that thinks they are more important than the veterans that they serve. ...

To run the business like they own it and to earn these bonuses, which is why you see so many people at the line level that want to move into management positions. i if you force businesses to pay for overtime, that money, again, has to come from somewhere and is going to come from the hours people work, from the salaries they earn, or from their bonuses, which takes airplane from -- takes away from opportunity. but businesses, unlike the government, businesses have to make a profit. if they don't, they close, and the jobs are lost. so the point isn't to -- say we have an income inequality prob...

They say that what they have uncovered so far is that there was a lot of back and forth in trying to understand the law, trying to understand at the line level these irs agents are trying to figure out how to give -- whether to give tax exempt status to tea party groups, how to determine the law. that's the back and forth and at least so far i'm told what they found out is that washington, meaning the tax attorneys or the experts, did have impact on that. who came up with the targeting, everybody thinks was inappropriate. we still don't know that answer. >> we know the hearing that starts next...

Classic definition of torture and i think it's inconsistent techbt with american values and something that should be prohibited. does that -- is that exculpatory in your view? >> he's not some cia agent at the line level. he was not out in the field. he was the deputy executive director. all the key points, he was chief of staff to porter goss during a lot of these key points. he wasn't a flew on the wall or someone at the bottom of the chain and one of the things i think is interesting to look at is -- when he withdrew his candidacy for this position four years ago, he wrote to then senator, ...