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Just wrote a piece on the law fare blog, how to read michael cohen's latest plea, what is your takeaway about the import of today, the president's answers he submitted to mueller? >> that's one of the big questions, you know, if the president submitted answers that are, you know, inconsistent with this document. and i notice that giuliani was quoted today saying that everything the president said is consistent with this document. you know, that's a potential problem because this document is not simply what mueller has from michael cohen. it's what mueller has from michael cohen that he can cor...

Raised, which is how then is michael cohen supposedly lying? >> right. and that's -- and i thought it was interesting today, the first initial instinct is, michael cohen's lying, but then he comes out and says, you know, when he's standing by the helicopter, you know, look, we had -- i'm doing deals, you know, and if i lose, i go back to doing deals which contradicts everything he said. and kim, you worked for kenneth starr, the independent counsel under a different statute and obviously the president at that point, bill clinton lying became a huge part of the impeachment proceedings, he lied ...

The way these things work, and i think this week is a really good example of how it works, in dealing with someone like jerome corsi and in seeing paul manafort. the mueller team is going to gather all of the documentary evidence that they have collected, whether it's e-mails, phone records, contracts, bank records. i mean, everything you can imagine. and they have those records that are relevant to that witness in front of them. and they will go through e-mail after e-mail after e-mail and say what is this? what is this? when someone is cooperating. so michael cohen can provide a road map to ...

Lawyers, i think they're probably thinly staffed and there are regular people that are career public servants that get hurt by this process. >> yeah. >> and that also, i'm sure, is going on to a large degree right now and we -- it's the last thing i think on everyone's minds because the implications are much bigger here for democracy than they were under ken starr. >> ben, the president has already put the rhetoric up to ten and there's a sort of question of where could he -- how does he go to 11 at this point? right? he said everything he could possibly say about robert mueller. many have gon...

Ken starr. >> ben, the president has already put the rhetoric up to ten and there's a sort of question of where could he -- how does he go to 11 at this point? right? he said everything he could possibly say about robert mueller. many have gone after him. what is containing him right now. what are the available avenues for him? >> for the president? >> yes. >> i mean, i think nothing is containing him. he is a -- you know, he's giving vent to his anger on a regular basis, both in -- on twitter and to anyone who will ask him about it. look, i mean, the thing that constrains him, to the extent t...