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To support congress' bid to sanction the russians for interference. second, this indictment does not return the russian hack of the dnc server. if this group of russian nationals had been involved in that crime, that information would likely be a part of this indictment. that means we have yet to see whatever mueller has found about the mack, whether there was collusion in that regard remains the big unknown.ack, whether th collusion in that regard remains the big unknown.hack, whether t collusion in that regard remains the big unknown. thish t third the goal was partly to support the campaign...

That happens pretty frequently but it's a whole different level and it's a foreign entity or a foreign government and what were they using those four, to generate ads and chaos and put out a message that was far and wide? was a $5,000 or $5 million? i don't know yet but those of the kind of details i think will illuminate a lot of the problems that may be were injected by the russians. it seems like based on this indictment, they were set in motion a couple years before the election. >> melissa: catherine make some great points, they need their identity and they were reaching out and trying to...

Identified specific crimes. the public knew what was being investigated. do we -- based on your last answer we don't know what is being investigated. based on your last answer it is a moving target. is it collusion, obstruction, what is it? >> the original issue was the issue of russia attempts to influence the election. look, that's what we've got here with carter page. i saw the president yesterday say we caught them spying on my campaign. well, with all due respect to the president that's not accurate. the fisa application is in october of 2016 to go wiretap carter page. a month earlier car...

We'll call coordination. some people call it collusion. but it's coordination. what did the campaign do in its communications with russians, whether it be the june 9th meeting with the russians at trump tower or the communications that don junior had with wikileaks or the papadopoulos or the carter pag meetings. what was going on around that communication process. >> i assume he'll ask the president also about michael flynn, his national security adviser for a month or so, about his communications with the russians. >> that's right. so there are a couple of things about that. there are the dec...

He's going to say, as he did in a recent interview 16 times, there was no collusion. regardless of what the questions are to him. you know, i just think the president is in a stronger position here than many of us may be thinking about. because he is in control. if he doesn't want to answer these questions, he's not going to answer them. and what is anybody going to do about it? >> you know, he's really talking about no collusion in terms of himself. i mean, to jim's point, and about flynn's contacts with the russians, that's not donald trump's issue unless, unless he was -- he knew what flynn...