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We need a balanced budget. we need a flat tax and need to start some kind of amendment in there that we just can't keep raising taxes to pay for all this pork. >> okay. richard, one man's pork may be another man's important government project. >> that is indeed true. now, don't get me wrong, i think there's wasteful spending that happens in our government. so agree on that point, but there are meaningful projects we have seen pork create. but the internet and a lot of other things. that being said i think there has to be a balance here and balance is going to be key. what the government needs ...

With his defense of rail. i'm kind of with hadley on this and will give examples. i think richard is completely wrong. if you include subsidies that amtrak gets plus the high cost of their ticket they are four times as expensive as airline travel. you look at how many people really want amtrak. the average person drives 15,000 miles a year. they are on amtrak 20,000 miles a year. as far as this whole energy and green stuff, amtrak alone pollutes more than buses. it's about equal with cars driving inner city. hold on one second hold on. to get back to hadley's point, if there is a market for it...

It's a great idea. get you there fast go on the train, and i love trains but a big money loser. >> richard? you want to respond? >> well, here's the thing, when people try to talk about amtrak they are talking about the old system not talking about the high-speed rail. they are talking about diesel engines, a majority of them are across the country. but when we are talking high-speed rail we are talking energy-efficient faster cabooses moving people to and from work and to and from play a lot quicker. it's a great way to pump the economy. a great to put americans back to work. and on top it al...

Amtrak derailment. and while this wasn't a high-speed train, it is raising questions over the push for all these high-speed rail projects across america. get this nearly 35 states already receiving a combined $10 billion from the federal government to build them. now, hadley you say this crash shows why we should be very cautious about throwing tax dollars at high-speed rails across america, why? >> i'm not against high-speed rail and think it can be a safe and effective form of transportation. but i'm against government-run high-speed rail because the government doesn't do a very good job det...

>> i do. i don't quite understand the math as much as i respect gary k. gitmo is costing $2.8 million per prison per year. the average maximum security prison costs about $85,000 per prisoner per year. even if you just add in all the extra security with gitmo, you won't make up another, whatever over $2 million per prisoner. i think i have a good solution. i understand richard's points yes, we should keep american values. i also understand john's points. you know have they made a good point? well what congressman or senator would not want gitmo in their backyard? well we made that same argumen...