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Taxes. any economist my debate whether that is 4.9 trillion or 5 trillion. >> you're mischaracterizing the romney plan. you're right, 5 trillion by lowering the tax rates but also cuts about cutting loop holes and -- >> ahhhh. >> but that is part of the plan. >> but he won't say which loop holes and which deductions. >> joining me washington post kol columnest and author. you. >> you have a lot of heart, ed. >> i have so much heart. there are polls on the table that mitt romney is talking about. i tweeted out tonight, could we actually elect a man who has not explained his tax proposal to the ...

We would be talking about mitt romney's loose interpretation of the facts regardless of what the people thought of the pet's performance. his own campaign walked back what romney said about covering people with preexisting conditions in the healthcare plan. >> marjorie wasn't the president lying when he repeatedly said mitt romney would raise taxes five trillion dollars. it will not be near five trillion wasn't that a lie. >> no it is not a lie because romney will not talk about the loop holes. he refuses to walk through the math. paul ryan said i don't have time to deal with that. and voters ...

>> that's the one we all want to see. thank you so much. >> the president and mitt romney not veering from their messages and taking every chance they could to hit one another on the policies. >> i know that you and your running mate is saying that and it is popular thing to say but it is not the case. i got five boys and i am used to people saying something that is not always true but keeping on repeating it and hoping i will believe it. that's not the case. i will not reduce taxes paid by high income americans. >> the fact is, if you low are the rates the way you describe, governor, it is no...

Enough deduction and loop holes that only affect high income individuals to avoidd either raising the deficit or burdening the middle class. it's math. it is arithmetic. >> steve: which we have heard the president say on the stump. it is interesting and so critical for people to see, i was reading one poll, 15 or 18 percent of the country waiting to see the first debate because they were sitting on the fence and they want to see the guys side by side. mitt romney's job was to look presidential. he looked presidential and looked like he had better answers than the president of the united states...

Taxpayers will have fewer deductions and exemptions. >> number cruncher congressman paul ryan was equally unable to list a single loop hole the romney/ryan tax plan would close. >> it's difficult to accept your word if you're not going to specify which tax loop hoholes you're willing to close. don't voters have a right to know which loop holes you're going to go after? >> mitt romney and i based on our experience think the best way to do this is show the framework, outlines of the plan and work with congress to do this. that's how you get things done. the other thing -- >> isn't that a secret ...