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Um, it came out feeling somewhat unbalanced, john. >> any sign that macron, if his goal was to get putin to deescalate, that he immediate any headway at all? >> you know, no. it was hard to sort of come away wa that kind of read. they used the hang here rather than reducing tensions, the language that -- that macron and putin are using is sort of bing -- bring a broad security guarantee or new security dispensation to europe. this is something that gives russia what it wants, and europe gets what it wants. um, but on that key point of russia deescalating, which is something putin said he rathe...

Nic, what is the latest from moscow and what they are saying about the diplomatic efforts? >> you know, i think you get a clue, john, the way both leaders decided to characterize the meetings. putin said that they were businesslike, that they were interesting, that they were useful. whereas, macron described them as lively and substantial. substantial, they were. they lasted more than five hours. but really, in the press conference afterwards, it seemed to be president putin who was landing most the criticism and president macron, who was not pushing back so hard. putin criticized the leaders ...

That took place with president macron, i think it's president putin saying keep 'em guessing. keep 'em guessing. look very carefully at the comments he made and they were really noncommittal. you know, these proposals could be the basis/foundation for something but quote it's too early to begin talking about this. or about the details. so i think president putin now, as usual, has set up the situation. he has -- i think general clark described it quite well. but now, he is watching and he is allowing the europeans to run all over europe, come to moscow, go to kyiv. but really, the real game fo...

Macron ees in an election campaign. he is going to do the best he can. he knows all this talk from putin about a threat from nato is malarkey. but -- but nobody wants to see ukraine as the beaten zone for a russian military action. we don't want to see it. ukrainians don't want to see it. and if it happens, it will be a challenge to pull the sanctions together and make them lasting, and make them very painful because we are dependent on russian energy so going to be tough. >> jill, as the general noted, there is a whole hot of talking, right? president biden meeting with german chancellor, fre...

Russia that is doing pretty much nothing of what it is supposed to do over that agreement. so, you know, there was a point where macron could have pushed back against president putin. he didn't. president putin criticized nato. said that nato was the aggressor, russia wasn't the aggressor. macron didn't push back on that. um, part of what putin was doing was putting pressure on macron, because he is going to kyiv tomorrow to speak with ukrainian leadership. and both leaders said, look, we have got some points of convergence. there are places where we agree. we can take more steps forward. but ...