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Konstantin kilimnick. manafort spent a decade working with him. prosecutors call him an intelligence asset for russia and whose meeting with manafort is at the heart of the special counsel's investigation. the other is so connected in russia, he's called putin's oligarch. manafort he was in deep with him. personality and financially, why did manafort offer him private briefings while running trump's campaign. the polling data. that's where that comes in. we haven't heard any of this from mueller. was he going rogue bypassing it to him? sure looks like the type of information, what we call the ...

Tell. he is not a cooperator right now. but almost all defendants become convicted. and almost all convicted defendants become cooperators. >> do you believe michael cohen's cases debt resolved before mueller. >> you mean in time? >> yes. >> again, hard the say, if the he is inclined to bleed guilty and cooperate it could happen pretty quickly. if like mr. manafort he wants a trial it could take a long time. >> chuck rosenberg i'm going to leave it there. >> thank you for having me. let's bring in michael mcfaul former ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst ander thou o...

He agrees least at 0 to six months. manafort he's about 11 to 12 years if he goes to trial and loses. if he cooperates fully he's about four to five years. big incentive to cooperate. >> i'm coming to you in a second. but focusing on legal angles. is president trump in any trouble whatsoever for calling papadopoulos a liar and bashing potential witness? >> i don't think so, not yet from a legal standpoint. if his language tends toward obstruction, that is witness intimidation, then theoretically. if he says to somebody if he says to manafort, just be quiet. >> so calling someone a liar isn't i...

>> it's a one-party consent state in new york. >> what kind of -- >> i think michael recorded this mcdougal conversation towards the end as he had a bad time during the election, pushed away throughout the process whether it was with liewandowski and hope. manafort he was a little more in. when bannon came in, he was pushed aside and he wanted to protect himself on these payments. that's if i had to guess. now, remember, michael was -- >> he saw something like this coming, are you saying? >> i think he could have seen he needed to protect himself in case he would be disowned. look, he had work...