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Long process. just speaking to nato. back in 2008, president bush wanted georgia and ukraine to join nato, a communique was written, the thank was sign by angela merkel. what happened? the russian forces innovated georgia and ukraine six years later. that's what we're dealing with here. it will take a long time. it's a long process, martha. >> martha: one more question about turkey. we can put that map up. what is turkey's stance appear to be? i know some of the drones that have been used are turkish drones that have been successful on the convoys coming towards kyiv. what about the black sea ...

And guns firing in every direction. kyiv has the capacity to survive for very long time. or much longer than people think. now, the russians are bringing that heavy armor down. but they are very slow, because they don't have full, the fuel supplies are being attacked. their ambush is going on everywhere. there was a territorial guard ambush. and kyiv, north of kyiv near chernobyl, the other day. a place that i've been. and the local coast guard just ambushing them everywhere. how long can they sustain? that that is the question. >> well i want to ask the control room to keep that map up. most ...

Sovereign country without the consent of that nation. whether it is a squad of 12, a squadron of tanks or army of 190,000 is irrelevant. this is an invasion, we need to deal with it as such. that means significant package of a response from the west. >> significant package of a response from the west. i expect that means two p things. it means something to do with nato. i'll ask my control roam to put a map up, there's a lot of nato countries around ukraine, what are they planning to do? >> i think there are three things the alliance needs to do right now. you alluded to stand diplomatically, ...

Air defense systems. so, essentially, if this is the way that russia carries this out, in the first hour or so, they will virtually cripple that half of the ukrainian military there. they will only airspace because they have air defense systems up in the north and belarus and the western part of russia that will virtually take over the airspace there. then, after that initial air campaign, we will see artillery fire coming across the border and then, after an hour, maybe two, a couple of hours in the early parts of this campaign, that is when we will most likely see russian military forces rol...

Sign that his terrible economy and dictatorship is not the only way to do things in that part of the world. and so yeah, he fears his own people, absolutely, all dictators do. >> tim, let me bring you into this and ask you just for your assessment of where things are heading. it's obviously late night in kyiv. we don't have our map up. i'll see if we can pull a picture up. but as incompetent and i think rick is describing the invasion as incompetent, for days now, as it's been and as it's looked with that barely moving convoy, there are casualties now, civilian casualties. there are cities bur...