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Saying, with his face, with his eyes, are you kidding me? and, you know, as you know, rudy has tried to walk it back today, saying he's only the president's lawyer, et cetera, et cetera. but just hearing him say that means that he is actually listening or watching, which of course i assume he is, what's going on with the special counsel. manafort, gates cooperating. you can't miss those things. and that spells collusion. >> and, joe, giuliani serves this interesting role. he frequently says things -- the first time he did it, we thought, oh, my goodness, is he not on the same page as the presi...

Read into this? >> i have to say, i had the grudging admiration from mare giuliani. he's wil i don't mean to try and be honest, he talks straight. but to have to say these things and walk them back, their strategy is all over the place. he's trying to say -- two things i saw out of the sound bite that's most frequently played. one, he's trying to say, look, maybe there was collusion but my client, the president, wasn't involved. by the way, there is only this narrow crime of conspiracy you can charge him with, and that didn't happen, so therefore there's nothing else to see here. it's a poorly...