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Famous little phrase no bid contracts. when you corruption, you have supreme who have to amend their w-2s because they are taking gifts that the conference. people who were spending all kinds of money on no-bid contracts, would you change your are mind having heard there were no bid contracts here? >> i think at this stage that was horrendous management is what i would say. there was a misguided effort to sort of build morale in the agency and do things like this and there is no place for that in government. >> judge jeanine: you know what, i don't really care -- you know, mark, i don't care a...

If you look the irs organization versus the day the ig report, we have new commissioner, deputy services and enforcement, commissioner for tax-exempt government entities. >> that is new leadership but who has been held accountable? >> well i think the leaders that were replaced certainly i think the fact they're no longer holding positions of public trust, that is part of the accountability. >> so so resignation is accountability, is that what you're telling the american people? lois lerner being on administrative leave is accountability? is lois lerner still being paid today. >> she is. marth...

Pulled out into the open and, then you have a complete airing of the facts. martha: do you have confidence, mr. everson, do you have confidence that is going to happen? talk about the breach of trust and people not, the irs losing credibility as we heard yesterday from mr. werfel, that is such a serious american break of trust. people sign their, you know, returns. they you know, cross their ts and dot theiris, they're so concerned they will get backlash. to hear, these folks are protected by civil process. gee, we don't get that kind of treatment from the irs? >> yeah. i, i understand the fru...

What happened at the top in terms how long they let this go and the fail lure, failure to address it, particularly the undermining of the relationship with congress. you have to have good relationships with the congress if you're going to unare agency correctly. martha: i think people want to see that good relationship bear out in, you know, a very clear and transparent way, and acknowledgement. i have to get this so far out there that people say i get it. i think people have been punished. i think people have been replaced. i think this will never happen again. short of that we're in a very s...

Party in 2010 and they're very concerned about this, and rightly so, frankly. this will be with them as a foundational element of their view of this agency for decades. my experience of the service up and down was that people tried to be impartial and do their job without any concern as to politics. so that's why this is so -- so sad and so disturbing. >> agreed. mark everson, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> there are several hearings on the irs mess this week in washington. stay tuned to fox news. they'll have the latest on the irs scandal. we'll keep probing benghazi. th...