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Unknown, and of course, the other obvious point is that the youeuropeans are only able to do that because in fact the us army lives in germany and actually picks up their defense tab. you can't do it -- there's nobody to bail out america the way germany's bailing out europe. >> john boehner was on the program the other night. he said hey, i wasn't consulted about this latest offer. i wish i was. this talk about republican conservatives, tea party members that were purged from certain committees because they had a criteria list if they didn't meet or match the leadership vote schedule. is that ...

Some statistics. i think though kind of illustrate really what the problem is with medicare and social security, if you go back to 1940, the number of years of life expectancy beyond retirement for men and women was about 14 years. you retire at 65. start, you could in those days start receiving benefits at 65. you would live about 14 more years. these days you're living to 85. so the payouts go on way beyond what the program was originally designed for. also, in 1945 you had about 41.9, almost 42 people paying into the, what is it called, old age, security and disability insurance. that is th...

By the way, it was 17,000 in terms of capping deductions and then it went to 25 and all of that's -- again, it's a symbol of a group that has no clue how to make this math add up and you can't make it add up. there are not enough offsets to pay for the $5 trillion cut full stop. >> dana, what's the politics of this? you throw out a plan, you back it up with 1.3 trillion, which has you 3.5, 3.8 really trillion off. what are the politics of that? are they trying to throw out something to make it look like they have a plan? what's the politics of this? >> i think the assumption is you outline the...

There. by the way, romney's budget more extreme than ryan's. ryan is looking for $5.3 trillion in cuts. romney is up to around $7 trillion and he doesn't cut medicare, so that's now around $8 trillion. that's all coming -- what does the government do that's not senior, defense or taxes -- it's low-income programs. >> what is the truth about the tax cuts? >> the tax cuts in ryan's budget are more -- again, are on the other side, more extreme than in romney's budget. they do -- as i remember, they go down to a 25% top tax rate. it is just a giant tax -- like romney's budget, they say they will p...

Debating suggested obama wasn't telling the truth. this is not a one-way street. let's not act as if one campaign is doing it. word liar was not actually used. no way problem any can make the math add up if he was going to be revenue neutral. in one sentence he said he would not lower taxes on the upper income americans and rather not raise taxes on upper income americans but he would lower the tax rate from 35, 40 to 35% or to 25%. how can both be true? you can't say i'm lowering tax without lowering tax. >> you're raising revenue by eliminating loopholes. >> he didn't say what loopholes he w...