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>> it's almost irrelevant. the issue is whether or not she was involved and had discussions about the clinton e-mail server. it's whether or not her husband, as a result of money from a clinton ally, is involved, had to recuse himself because of the appearance that justice wouldn't be fairly administered. clearly that was the case ultimately. now, he bought must have of the issue to have gone through the recusal process. we found the recusal process was not regular. he basically ran it up the flag pole with james comey. that's not how you figure out these recusal issues. once he's caught, he s...

>> well, certainly mr. mueller knows what mr. mccabe knows at this point. and the fact that he was involved in the potential obstruction of justice story is absolutely critical here. and i want to make a point that getting back to his lawyer, john dowd, mr. trump's private lawyer, coming out and saying, listen, we should cancel the investigation into russian collusion for the same reasons that there maybe were justification for letting mr. mccabe go. these are apples and ba nans. i mean what's happened with mr. mccabe, we haven't seen inspector general report, we don't know what the circumstan...

Character of the trump presidency. he's unpredictable. he's erratic. he could have let mr. mccabe go, retire and do whatever he wishes. he chose to make it a big issue by ordering this firing two days before. it suggests that president trump is exactly who he said he was and behaved throughout his campaign. he wants to be in charge. he wants to set the agenda every step of the way and willing to wage war against all his enemies. now he's trying to take them out one by one and he's surrounding himself with people who, as he said, think a little more like him. it seems to be like a circling of t...

Business into a separate trust. so it makes him vulnerable. it makes our country vulnerable. i think mr. mueller wants to know more about that. >> senator ben cardin, awfully good to see you again, sir. thank you so much for joining me on this saturday morning. thank you. joining me now, political reporter for npr and jeremy peters, a msnbc contributor. jeremy, it's no secret that the president wanted to see mccabe go. do you think there's a sense of relief there in the white house? or at least on behalf of the president, that this has happened now? >> among the president, his senior advis...

General's report. what are you sources telling you about what's behind your recommendation and whether mccabe is going to get axed? >> as you laid out, it does seem he wasn't forthcoming enough with the inspector general. that was referred to the office of professional responsibility within the fbi. those people oversee people who are career civil servants like mccabe. they're in what's known as the senior executive service. those people don't just serve at the pleasure of the president. it's not like trump can wave a hand and he'd be fired without his pension overnight. there's a process here...