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Think they play very well as overreaching. >> and it seems, david, we are hurtaling now, we're hurtling toward some confrontation as you said. there's going to be a fight. if the president says no, mueller then sends a subpoena. it goes to a court. this is where things get very serious. >> we are. it's important to remember, this is an inherently political process. there's some debate about this. the legal expert who's i find persuasive don't think the sitting president of the united states can be charged with a crime. there's some debate. i would be stunned if mueller decided to do that in th...

>> what does that look like to you, david? >> i mean it looks on the one hand like a big mess but this is a mess we should want. as harry said, this is about the rule of law. we are supposed to be a nation of laws, supposed to be a place where power does not allow you to subvert and twist the justice system. it's clear donald trump has this view it should let him do so. that's what he means when he says he wants sessions to be loyal and when he said i fired comey because he was looking into me and i didn't like it. that on a very deep level is un-american. this is a real clash but a clash we s...

Remember, this has changed three times, chris. in january, the president was eager to do it. in february, he was leaning against it. in march, he told his lawyer he wanted to do it, and in april whether he michael cohen's office was raided, he said there's no way i'm doing it. so it could change again. but at the moment, i think there is some reservation in the team about putting the president in front of bob mueller and a team of seasoned investigators. >> well, carol, before you came on the line and you were busy breaking yet another big story, we had rob bennett who represented bill clinton...

Period, full stop. and that's the number one thing that they want to avoid. so i think the leak is designed to begin to portray an out-of-control prosecutor. of course, these are all very kind of obvious straightforward questions to anyone who has been following the probe and i don't think they play very well as overreaching. >> and it seems, david, we are hurtaling now, we're hurtling toward some confrontation as you said. there's going to be a fight. if the president says no, mueller then sends a subpoena. it goes to a court. this is where things get very serious. >> we are. it's important t...

David lean hard from the "new york times" his latest piece is called "the truth is coming for frump," and harry litman. david, had you something you want to say. >> i was going to say, carol made the point mueller is not going to limit himself to this list of questions. mueller is not just a lawyer. he's a political animal. he's held political appointments been in washington a long time and understands how the game works. he understands he's at risk of getting fired by the president of the united states. we should assume that i'm not saying i have knowledge of this, but there is every reason t...