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He's got his face covered with a mask, a series of can get facial recognition. his dress is kind of unique. so he's coming to close to, people's got a pistol, he's already killed three, and he's wounded another at least five that we know of. and had two different locations. so extremely dangerous, spree killer. whereabouts unknown. very volatile situation, even three and a half to four hours after the initial attack. steph? >> frank is a surprise you that the suspect, the shooter is still at large? there are scores of law enforcement, east lansing, police fbi, atf, all spread across that campu...

Work. so that's the strength of these things. never really have enough officers, we really can't have too many officers. you just have to have the commanders that understand how to leverage all these people to their advantage. you get everybody interviewed, you can go and answer every call, because of all these officers and agents available to you. so that's what it takes, it takes strong leadership to make it happen, and like frank said and maybe we can get something to happen tonight, soon, so we can get this guy app upended, steph? >> we are grateful for them massive on forsman present it's...

Will be holding events for rival candidates in arizona on friday. and as the "washington post" reports, advisers and alleys say they think pence is likely to run and insist he will not make his decision on whether trump chooses to run again. david jolly, carlos still with us, carlos, does mike pence believe the party is going to choose him? and if so, is arizona, state of countless audits, run by the cyber ninjas, is arizona the right state to test that? >> steph, i think mike pence feels a moral obligation to combat donald trump. i mean here's someone who was loyal, literally -- >> hold on, c...

We heard from adam kinzinger earlier tonight saying what he saw was possible criminal activity, and there could be a criminal indictment, criminal exposure, on the part of the president. did you see that? >> it's interesting, there are a lot of rich opportunities here to find criminality on the part of the former president. and that highlights for me steph, this notion that there was more than one conspiracy around the big lie. there was an effort to use the fake electors. there was an effort to corrupt the justice department. ultimately, there is a seditious conspiracy. and frankly, all of th...

Would say within four to five hours. >> trump is sitting in the dining room at the white house, when this happened, and carlos, what's your take? >> well, look, i think you have to really admire those leaders for their commitment to their jobs, to the constitution, to the country, to integrity, and then the contrast, steph, that you just raised, number one, they knew they couldn't count on donald trump. why? because he was behind this whole thing. because he was promoting this whole thing. because he was doing everything he could to make sure those senators could not get back to work. and that...