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Medicaid, which almost doubled from 4.6% to 8%. over the next 25 years these programs will grow from about 7% of the economy to more than 14%. so i ask -- how are we going to pay for that? but for some people even raising the question means you're automatically anti-social security or against the elderly. that rhetoric might work for campaigning or special interest groups but it doesn't do much for the people who count on these programs. the "l.a. times" article that took me on raised a worthwhile distinction, though, about raising the age of retirees. the change in life expectancies from age ...

Obamacare works is they give you a subsidy for an insurance plan. as you make more money, they take away more and more of the subsidy. this creates effectively a tax with people on low and moderate incomes. as they earn more money, they lose part of the subsidy. it adds on 5%, 10%, 15% to their tax rate. some people will work less. that's not a desirable economic effe effect. tweak the program to have less of that effect. any kinds of means tested entitlement plan -- >> any means testing in spitelement program, in a welfare program will have this incentive effect at the margins. it's a reason ...

>> we have to start, as you know i made a proposal a few weeks ago in the context of the budget to say okay, let's just say under medicare that there would be means testing under part b, which is hospitalization and doctors -- it is doctor's visits. and also under part d, which is prescription drugs. if you increase that means testing slightly you can save about $56 billion over the next ten years based on the president's own budget. but in the next ten years you save about $450 billion. so that is what you have to do. some slight changes now, medicare means testing should be something that de...

I fought for means testing in medicare. i fought for raising the age limit on future retirees. that was completely rejected. those things i think make a big difference on our entitlement trajectory. i just don't see that kind of thing happening. but i would like to think it's a step in the right direction which maybe we can work on tax reform. maybe there are some other things we can get done. the fed will start tapering. i want to get a foundation underneath this economy, get people back to work and getting this divided government working at a minimal level. that's what i mean. >> congressman...

Got them and we've got means testing in effect for the program exchanges, we got that and maybe a couple more things. but i think he might be able to get medical devices. that's the tricky one. that robs the program of about $5 billion over two years, about $29 billion over ten years or so. and the question then is, is that considered a mortal wound or serious wound against obama care? if the president believes it is, it's a real underfinancing of obama care which will hurt it down the road, he's going to have to reject it. if, on the other hand, he says we can afford this and some people say ...