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It's not working with him in charge. >> donna coates, barry coates, thanks so much for being with us. wish you both the best of luck as you move forward in the best of health. thanks so much. mi michaela? the president is expected to nominate julian castro to become housing secretary. president obama will then tap donovan to run the budget office. castro has been touted as a rising star among the democrats, a potential candidate for vice president in 2016. for a consensus between the white house and congress the republican-led house passing a bill to end the nsa collection of americans' phon...

Young, black women. and i was close to hiring a latino fashion editor. this is about reflecting the culture in which you say you stand. and honestly, anderson -- >> we see this debate. >> go ahead. >> we do see this debate with the hispanic publications as well. we see the same debate when it comes to gender, a magazine target the women, then all of a sudden if you have a man who is in charge of that, then we've seen this debate. again -- i understand michaela's point in terms of "essence" brand targeting black women. here is what this says to me. it also says that "essence," frankly, is more ...

Anybody? i do believe if there are more african-american, hispanics at fashion magazines, michaela's argument might be a little more different because opportunities are more plentiful. she's saying this is the only shot you really have, because the rest of the folks are not hiring you. >> i'm saying this also for black girls that called me crying that had -- this is the one place. you know, you come from the fashion elite, from a family that knows it, there's one seat in the show that is for black people, one. just one. just one seat at the table where you can usher in other people, where you ...

Is noncolor blind hiring the answer? >> first of all, look at black publications historically. i worked at savoy magazine when mi michaela was at honey magazine. there were white staffers there. i've run black newspapers, had white staffers there as well. there have been folks who were white at black newspapers. you look at mr. greenburg, the second person to lead the naacp education fund after thurgood marshall. as an advocate of diversity, i can't say you don't hire the best person. that is a slippery slope we walk on. i understand michaela's point but i do believe the larger point is that y...