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Certain time for a certain purpose. if we think back to 9/11 and you know when that first plane hit we were all agassed. when the second plane hit what did we all collectively think around the world? what did we think? we didn't think that was an accident. and this same event has some elements to that. you can't rule out an accident. you have to press like michael said. he is right on every point he made. you have to press that. to me this tilts a little bit to a human hands for a criminal purpose by somebody on that plane that has some knowledge of flight systems. and those leads got to be ki...

We are still trying to define where the haystack is. joining me now is jim kavanagh and michael pengea. thanks for being on the show tonight. >> you're welcome reverend al. >> let's focus on these new debris photos. how likely is it that this is plane wreckage? >> well, it's a good lead. there is a lot of stuff in the water there. planes do have things that float. there is seat cushions, life vests. if it is debris maybe they will be able to recover something. the safety of life at sea has highly reflective materials on life vests and mariners might have a chance to spot something. there is ...

Don't think at this point we can rule anything in or out. i think we have to continue to search as we are until we have more information we don't know. >> michael, quickly, yes or no, is there still a chance this plane was hijacked? >> you know, it seems to me, yes, of course. and the overwhelming probability right now from all the facts that we can possibly gather is that either the crew did it or there was some intervention with the crew because a plane doesn't suddenly turn -- these pilots are not really flying the planes. they are on flight management systems. for the plane to suddenly mak...