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>> i had the honor of meeting nelson mandela when he visited the clinton white house for a state viz in it 1994. it was his second trip to the united states and his first as south africa's first black president. like so many, i was personally inspired by madiba to believe in the possibility for positive change through collective action. having been a part of apartheid protests in high school and college, to see him standing there shaking my hand was almost overwhelming. from what seemed a hopeless imprisonment to his release and then to the presidency of his country. joining me now, dr. mary f...

Democracy was enshrined in south africa but in his heart and as i think about him now, he was never able to achieve what needs to happen which is to do something about all those millions of poor south africans and the aids crisis and all the problems that bessette them. and so, this was a goal he had, too. not just being the guy who was pleasant and conciliatory and everybody loved him but he knew the harsh reality. >> and many people have described him as being very tenacious, michael. he was a -- you can tell -- i've read his autobiography. he was one heck of a negotiator. >> that's the inte...

Sense was strategic. he was a human being. he was a fine human being. but it was -- let's not forget he was a great strategist and, yes, he was. i hear people saying, you know, he was a radical and i think the lead-in to the show, something about him being a communist and this and that and the other. he was a guy using everything he could think of and doing it in every way possible to try to achieve freedom for his people. >> right. dr. mary francis barry, it is an honor to talk to you and michael, always great see you. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you so much. next, we take on the f...

That's hip hop. that's my man. and he came out and i just kind of -- grab and shake his hand and he was surrounded by security and i yelled and he smiled and just kept walking in and for me as a 17-year-old kid just to get as the doctor said, a twinkle in his eye, just a look, just a look was good enough for me and certainly inspired my work ever since. >> dr. barry, it sounds like michael could have been with you when you were there raising hell and would have been a great asset when you were there. >> that's right. but let me just make sure i say this for your audience. >> yes. >> although t...

Loved -- he was witty. he loved a joke. he was funny. he was serious but he was also funny. people don't -- he was a human being. >> sure. >> and he had that twinkle in his eye and he was dapper because they had given him nice clothes to wear that day and he liked to be well dressed and he's -- he was such a handsome man anyway and here he was and we thought that he was going to be fragile, frail. >> yeah. >> we thought. there he was and he came and he hugged everybody. he kissed us. he thanked us for what we had done and he and winny sat down and we talked to each other like family before he ...