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And everybody who knows trump world knows that he is a notorious micro-manager, that he would have to approve every check that went out. it's not really likely that donald trump didn't know certain things that were having that may have been illegal inside trump tower. i think in terms of the aides you talked to, they are not so much worried about the material of the investigation. they are worried about the president and the day-to-day, his reactions in real time, what he may tweet or say or do that's going to make their day-to-day operations more difficult. >> we are looking at the cohen plea...

Denying knowledge of his son's 2016 trump tower meeting, but sources tell cnn the president's former fixer, michael cohen, now says that trump is lying. so, the real question here is whose story could hold up in court? joining us to discuss that is michael moore, former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. good morning. >> good morning. >> so, on the surface, you know, this information that cnn was able to uncover, it does sound very damning. >> sure. >> but you've got the legal mind, and you're the person, if you were putting yourself in the prosecutor's seat, how damning is it l...

But there's a little bit of a twist that i think's with the testifying about trump coming up with a statement about what the meeting was. it always defied him to say he didn't know what it was, but he was still able to come up with the explanation of what it wasn't. well, what if she didn't tell him? if she didn't tell him what it was when he was aboard air force one and he came up with this reason or false story about the meeting, that meant that he knew what it was ahead of time, that he was already in anticipation of it. and you've got somebody who's a control freak, a micro manager, and it...

Chairman of the house intelligence committee and his fellow travelers there. they've tried to say this entire narrative is a lie made up on the basis of the christopher steel dossier. that essentially a political document designed to destroy donald trump is the basis for all of this. at this point, the calls are coming from inside the house. okay. michael cohen is mad and not going to take it anymore is a vanity fair headline. cohen, very knowledgeable about cohen. she reports there's a lot more to come. there's a lot. you're with someone for ten years. you don't think there's a lot. the trump...

>> yeah. >> and also it wasn't to do with the election. it had to do with the trump brand and his relationship with his family. >> which is difficult to square because everything we know about donald trump is that he's a penny pincher. he controls all of his money. he's a micro manager of the bills for his buildings. >> when he pays the bills. >> when he pays them. so it's surprising that $130,000 would somehow leave his bank account and him not know about it or question where that money was going. but that's the argument the lawyers are making tonight. then the other issue with the political ...