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Standpoint, this meeting at the cigar bar is super important because, one, you've got manafort providing kilimnik, the russian intelligence operative, with very special polling information. it's not just 10% for clinton and 20% for trump. this is really granular information that goes to very specific geographic areas. so if you want to micro target, this is the kind of information these russian operatives needed. with respect to the whole business at the break-in at the democratic national committee, they were talking about this so-called ukrainian peace plan, which is a euphemism for dropping...

The heart of the investigation, which is fairly loud signalling of something like this. for those of us hearing this, the senate says they didn't find any collusion, this is an important message. >> it is an important message. you have to ask what is the heart of their investigation. the heart of their investigation has already come out in the sense there are two indictments outstanding against russian intelligence operatives. keep in mind, kilimnik is a russian intelligence operative, according to the fbi. one of those indictment relates to the use of social media, to micro target, potential ...

For manafort. so either he's going to cooperate with mueller or he's awaiting a pardon which i think is the scarier prospect because if he doesn't participate and enters a guilty plea, then the president can potentially pardon him and as someone who was on the ground during the hillary clinton campaign, i think one of the things we should also be looking at is the way they were able to micro target -- the trump campaign was able to micro car g target voters. they didn't have infrastructure on the ground but they knew based on people's address which is person was vulnerable to be a trump voter ...

Journalists and others now that we know tway lot more about what was going on at facebook and at cambridge analytica? >> john, the big problem is if the threads are united and if this data that was mined from facebook as this whistleblower alleges, in testing these messages, testing pro putin messages and steve bannon having a heavy hand, if that was then directed to a russian source that then used it to micro target american citizens. so, that's the big looming outstanding question, was there some collusion, was there cooperation between anyone affiliated with cambridge analytica and the trum...

Sick of the regular party, republicans in primaries, democrats in the generals they're willing to say no let's try the new guy. >> no. micro target is not complex i could do it from my house. >> could a russian do it? >> yes. the russians were in the u.s. base going well back to 2015, they were noe focussed on social issues, anti-government, race issues, going all the way to 2016. i think the key thing to look at what the russians did that no one did, they hacked materials and released it to the wild so any campaign was citing narratives that was set by wicky leeks drops. if anyone cited berni...