>> give me credit. that's the ratigan diagram. that's america today. >> in terms of how we get out of it. i think public financing of campaigns would be the best way. when i campaigned for congress, what i said to people is, it would take about $3.25, that was 2004 numbers, $3.25 for each person in the country to finance every u.s. senate and house campaign. wouldn't be be a small price to pay to feel like you have your democracy back? i think people would be willing to pony up that money. >> what do you think the cost of not paying is? >> i think the cost of not paying is -- >> trillions. >> ...