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From outside that courthouse in kenosha. one response, certainly. a very personal and poignant one. what about others? how are they responding to the verdict? reporter: alex, many legal experts weren t necessarily surprised by the outcome of the verdict because of the way wisconsin self-defense laws and many other states self-defense laws are written but it sparked a wider debate about the defense of self-defense and what that should include. in this case, soon as kyle rittenhouse said he acted in self-defense, the burden rested on the prosecution to disprove that. one pivotal moment in the case, rittenhouse himself took the stand and we heard more from the defense attorney mark richards, or one of his defense attorneys, about the decision to put him on that stand. had to put him on. there wasn t a close call. at certain points we wondered whether we would put him on. we did we had a mock jury, ....
Counselor, appreciate you taking the opportunity. good evening. how difficult a call was it? you know, myself and cory obviously went around and around with it. we felt as though we had a witness, a client, who could tell his story. he was articulate, fairly intelligent. he didn t have any damage. he didn t have prior convictions or never been in trouble. he was a police cadet, fire cadet, pro social. we thought he could do it. there was obviously a lot of work that went into it. we did a mock jury, and the mock jury were the 12 people denied to hear kyle s story. he scored much worse than the people who did hear his story. and that was subject to cross examination by a trained ....
Deliberation i ve ever been a part of it. i had an 18 hour and a 17 hour in one was a federal and one was a state case. it was torture. and this might sound like a small thing but the judge wanted us to be within ten minutes, obviously my office isn t within ten minutes so we have are to sit in the room on the third floor and it was hell. what about the decision to put kyle on the stand, was that a close call for you do you think that made the difference in the case? you want the truth? yes. had to put on him. it wasn t a close call. at certain points we wondered whether we would put him on. we had a mock jury and we did two different jurors, one with him testifying and one without him testifying and it was substantially better when he testified. and i mean to a marked degree. and that sealed it. but in wisconsin if you don t ....
We did, we have a mock jury. we did two different juries, one with him testifying and one without him testifying. it was substantially better when he testified. to a market degree. that sealed it. in wisconsin, if you don t put a client on the stand, you re going to lose. neck. it s at the beginning. when the attorney gave his opening statement and said that kyle chase rosenbaum down, i don t know where that came from to this day. it was ridiculous. that gave me something to really show and argue to a jury that this isn t fair. it s not a game. i think that was huge. michael console and i stress the word cocounsel, he was not a second chair. he was incredible. ....
Ellison. let me play it for folks. had to put him on. it wasn t a close call. at certain points, we wondered whether we would put him on. we did we had a mock jury and we did two different juris, one with him testifying, one without him testifying. it was substantially better when he testified, i mean, to a marked degree. barbara, do you agree with that that they had to put him on? i think a jury very much wants to hear from a defendant when he claims self-defense. they have been told he has an absolute right not to testify, and he does, but i can t help but think that in a case like that, i feared for my life, i had no chance but to fire, i didn t want to hurt anybody, but i had no choice, i think they want to hear that from the defendant s mouth themselves. so it shouldn t hurt him if he ....