>> so, you've heard this before, that supporters of big game hunting saying that five and six-figure price tags hunters pay to price the animals goes to funding protection efforts for the species as a whole, and also brings economic benefits to the local community. you say that model doesn't work. why not? >> that model doesn't work for so many reason. you have to unpack in all the different layers. it's one land-use system that works, but it only works for a short period of time. it doesn't have any -- it's not a structure that can last over a longer period of time. so that's not conservation...