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Defense department it sounds like the intent was capture he and his wife. he engaged with u.s. forces and because of that, he was killed. given what you're telling us about how crucial he was, how integral he was to the isis, how much more value would there have been for the united states if they were able to take him alive? >> i think it would have been enormous. when you're taking on an entity like isis, of course there's the military dimension, you've got the foreign fighters who come to be recruited and the wham a mole problem of isis popping up in parts of syria, other parts of iraq. you'...

President obama met with the leaders of the gulf states. >> always a pleasure to talk with you. let's get into it. i want an update with you. how much critical area has ice isis takeb over and is iraq as a whole at risk? >> it shows this ramadi case in which iraq thought it had well secured in anbar. now you see isis bouncing back and what whack a mole problem ielsz isis is. the government and the iraqi army have made progress in some places. they hope to have a larger spring summer offensive later in the year. but isis is able to shift and move around and come back to places that the governme...

Defense will be announced. why do you think there's been so many defense secretaries under the president. >> bob gates was the hold over from the bush administration when barack obama came in. he applied a lot of discipline that the bush administration needed. i think barack obama needed a time when there was lot of doubt about his capacity to deploy power in the world. since then leon panetta, chuck hagel, and the reinvolving door there, i think, is a function both of the times we're in that we haven't really -- we seem to have a wack mole problem. there's crises happening all over the place....