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Joining me now is a senior advisor to move on.org. great to see you, as always. >> hey, joy, great to see you, as well. >> let's go through this biden gambit because there are two ways to interpret it. one would be he so badly wants to be president that he wants to have stacy abrams as the human dangled to say look, look, if you let me have this thing you want, you can have her as my apprentice and number two or that he sees himself as a stabilizing figure but recognizes people might be concerned with his age so he wants to have somebody waiting in the wings to be vice president. are either of...

Have to deal with his record on the crime bill that doesn't take away from that. i think he has to seriously come out and when he runs, whether with a v.p. ticket or not, he really has to say hey, let me address these issues of my past. my record on things i've said is not going to go away. i don't think she's a buffer for that. >> senior advisor to move on.org. thank you is much. >> thanks, joy. joining us is nbc news presidential horn tore yi presidential historian. >> thanks. >> it didn't work with ronald reagan who united left to right as on oan outsider. has that been tried? >> that's i...

I covered move on.org's rise to prominence when they opposed george w. bush. interesting what they see with turnout coast to coast and if they address president trump is miami this afternoon. >> heather: let's see if they come close to the 10,000 number they expect. thank you so much, griff. >> bill: bombshell claims from the former f.b.i. director andrew mccabe telling 60 minutes that rod rosenstein was not joking when he suggested recording the president after the firing of james comey. >> to be fair, it was an unbelievably stressful time. i can't even describe for you how many things must h...

Taping? absolutely. but she didn't go out on the steps. she didn't call a rally and use that language the way trump has done. >> it's interesting, move on.org. but the thing, i think that's important to know. move on is an activist organization. it's a progressive activist organization. that's where she said it. you know the president of the united states was dropping f-bombs in front of the speaker of the house. >> that's exactly right. >> cursing against senior lawmakers in a setting about his mind national security. so it's, the republican versus said nothing about that. >> right. and they'...

Same mechanism when i was running. it wasn't for a campaign issue, he could have, but he didn't. with 2020 on the hoorize on, move on.org has a straw poll, showing beto o'rourke topping the list with a narrow lead over joe biden, rounding out the top five, bernie sanders and ckamal harris. why do you think harris is lower in the group. >> i think move on or the activists, people that knock on doors, people that give small donations, what surprised me is one, not that beto was at the top, that was a group enthusiastic for him and remains so, but also the same group that did endorse bernie san...