Could be as damaging to one's political career as being called soft on crime. and here there was an evolution that was now made public. what do you make of these audios? >> i think this is one of the saddest things that i've heard in a long time. and believe me, as a congressman sh i've heard a lot of sad things. he started out with an instinctive, basically right and wrong compass, moral compass. and then he -- the politics set in and he's disavowed it. and how do you say something is false and wrong when it's on p tape? what kind of alternate people are these people living in? >> well, you k...