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Debt. he started out all wrong by saying, if you have -- if you like the plan you have, you can keep it. and everybody went, well, then what's the problem? why are we spending all this money? >> and bill, i think one of the problems of framing it, morally, for them was at the outset, they gave up the concept of universal coverage. their bill, as they've designed it now, in its most optimistic form, would leave another 15 million, 20 million people without any insurance at all, and so all those same sob stories will exist after this bill takes full effect. so it seems like they couldn't really ...

And everybody went, well, then what's the problem? why are we spending all this money? >> and bill, i think one of the problems of framing it, morally, for them was at the outset, they gave up the concept of universal coverage. their bill, as they've designed it now, in its most optimistic form, would leave another 15 million, 20 million people without any insurance at all, and so all those same sob stories will exist after this bill takes full effect. so it seems like they couldn't really embrace the morality argument because in their moral choice, they were leaving out about half the people....

Activities in the white house as democrats looked at it, was an indirect annoyance or problem or ethical lapse, but it didn't directly affect their families. and that's where the policy comes in. and, look, i don't think it's an easy thing for a lot of families. you have a lot of never-trumpers in that world because of the character issue. but i think the overwhelming issue to them is the supreme court, you know, public policy, abortion, things like that. >> you must be right because he got a huge trunk of the evangelical vote which didn't make sense to people unless you just look at abortion....

I can speak from experience as a child of poverty i had to put myself through college and i drove a taxi that slowed down during the summer. i am not gay, but i worked as male prostitute to make up for the money. i felt i was endangered because i escaped, ut about i would have -- but i would have felt more comfortable if they were monitoring the whole thing. i was young and virtually hairless, and it is my right. who the hell are you to tell me? >> you make a powerful case for the legalization of sex work. i didn't see that coming from bernie. perhaps i never had. if not for prostitution, you ...

Who i think was unreliable from the get-go. he told the story initially that he made tea for the warring factions, calmed everybody down. only later that his story has been enhanced to include the argument on the after deck of the boat. and the suspicion in his mind that r.j. was responsible. >> bill: this is the guy causing the cops to reopen it? this captain? >> the book ironically. >> bill: there is a book. >> ironically was written in 2009. >> bill: by whom? >> published by the captain. >> bill: the captain wrote the book? >> why has it taken to years for them to finally say for anything m...