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The state of our politics and the legal institutions to be shielded from the politics. what will you be watching for? >> i'm certainly going to be watching for how the court watches all the delay motions we're going to see. let me be clear. any defendant has a right to bring legitimate motions in the case. that includes donald trump. but what we've seen from donald trump in the past is bringing cases not many lawyers thought he would have a chance of winning like the cases he brought over and over again for witnesses that didn't have executive privilege live steve bannon or using the motions t...

Partisanship. we saw that in new york, when he went after the new york state attorney general, and her investigation and claimed it was a partisan witch hunt. used to digicel process to do, that so i think we're gonna see very aggressive motion practice. we're gonna see lots of politicking in those. motions and they have very little to do with the law. and many of us looking and reading that indictment are sitting there thinking, i'm glad i don't have to come up with it. because it's very hard to come up with one, and if it were not donald trump i promise you the lawyers for anybody facing the...

Waters with people who aren't following this closely. >> and to your point, we saw this with mar-a-lago raid and with new york attorney charges. most of the republicans running against donald trump came out and talked about what an outrage it was. >> yeah. so, you had two things coming together here, right? the existence of this narrative of persecution helps him politically. and the longer he can delay the outcome of this trial, the better off he is from a legal, tactical standpoint. he doesn't want the result of this trial to land right in the middle of his campaign because it might not go h...

State the language of the statute that's violated, so this could have been done in a much briefer form, but i think when you have something, whether it's likely to be -- the importance of public confidence, they wanted to lay out the strength of the case. and so, we see things like text message exchanges, and statements that trump's lawyers wrote down about -- donald trump himself made, conversations that -- other employees. while not a gave to the npr when he lied to them. and so, all of those things really demonstrate a strong case. and i agree with you, katie, in terms of a dismissal, i don...

Of putting it in a report rather than an indictment should have been considered more seriously and perhaps adopted. the likelihood that this is actually going to come to trial in federal court, i think, before the election seems to me to be very much in doubt, because he's getting new lawyers. they're going to have to get security clearance. they're going have motion practice and all of that is going to take an enormous amount of time during which the indictment will be hanging over him and the election in general. paul: well, that's, that leads me to the question just from the matter of polit...