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Nielsen continuing to call this not a policy, that is because in this lawsuit they have to take the position it isn't a policy. >> so ifn terms of the legal approach they need to technically deny it as a policy. >> that is -- had a what is amazing at slate -- and they kept taking the position this isn't a policy, this is a discretionary decision that the attorney general can make by himself, well if it is a discretionary decision as they say, can't donald trump pick up the phone and say, stop it, jeff. so that is part of the reason you're getting these sort of two sides of the mouth analysis. ...

So that is part of the reason you're getting these sort of two sides of the mouth analysis. it is a law, it is not a law. it is a policy, it is discretion. so watch that because this is going to turn out like the travel ban. where things that are said, that j r just blurted out, oops john kelly said it was a policy and steven miller is saying it is a policy, that could affect the way a judge thinks about this question of are they lying to me? when they say it is not a policy. >> when we look at the legal vulnerability of this policy and i'm trying to think about this big picture. i think the o...