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Is there to back you up. my point is, for most of america i don't this is stunning. many people suspected this. i'm unsympathetic to the move hoff science and "experts." the recent months of reviewing not just their anti-science positions but authoritarian approach to anyone that dares disagree. i want sunlight to break through the darkness of light. i want many to say i'm done with covid. i have to note that you're a little late to the game. there's been real cost. this is probably the biggest domestic policy blunder to come in generations. you point out president trump. if this is a virus th...

And what -- and not locking down. this says people that argue against the scientific consensus about the lockdowns were stifled, censored by big tech, denigrated by the media and mocked by scientists. the scientific method needs voices to speak freely if it's to function properly. do you agree with that? >> i do. i think it's very difficult with politics so wrapped up in this pandemic response to have something that is an unorthodox position. i can remember coming on your show and talking about how you you counts talk about who is essential and who is not essential. i got push back for that. p...

Say maybe this is a cost fallacy. people like fauci are hanging on to the original idea. it's hard to look at it anyway but as a conspiracy. why have you shutout all other voices? why have you asked misinformation to be censored? why have you refused to pivot your position? it's hard to think that that is backed by science but motivated by power. >> martha: we need to have a free exchange of ideas. you think about the lab theory, which was shut down and blocked and senator cotton was out in front on this in the very beginning. just excoriated for saying that he thought this was something that ...