has the latest. the hottest abbreviation in tech these days is easily ai. apple is taking shot at redefining artificial intelligence into apple intelligence. the company unveiled a series of micro when related announcements at its worldwide developers concerts on monday chief among them a partnership with the artificial intelligence juggernaut openai. that will allow apple to integrate start up s cutting edge chat bot chatgpt into its devices including a superpowered series. the voice assistant will be available with chatgpt features for free later this year. other new additions include ai generated images of a mode help with proofreading in tone adjustment. these announcement are the big stand apple integrating ai features that have captured viewers attention and spending the big bucks rewarding terms that are not onlyjumped up but rewarding the ai bandwagon like nvidia that makes the chips that powers the ai revolution. overtaking apple itself to become the most viable company in the world by market value position. microsoft which has its own long standing partnership with openai remains the most valuable. apple s entrance into the artificial intelligence space may be viewed as late, when compared to rivals like microsoft and google. but experts say this could herald in a new frontier for the technology. i have been speaking tojulie ask , an independent technology analyst. a few things stood out from the conference for me. first, with the announcement from apple that they are going to invent generative ai into so many of their devices applications and experiences the offer to consumers, they remind us with most of the valley with large language value is still at the application layer. they also remind us that generative ai isjust one portion of the experience. consumers do not go out and buy generative ai, they buy or invest in experiences which generative ai can make better. the third thing they remind us of this entry to the market is having access and owning a relationship with the consumers is essential for any kind of success and today apple has over two billion devices installed. where do you see the company now in the ai race, still playing catch up? i would say yes and no. do not believe apple is late to the ai race, it is later at an expected to incorporate ai into its experience but apple has vintages of the companies do not. the first is when it comes to consumer pots personal contacts is so important and apple may have more context than any other entity. at the first iphone launch they had 16 native apps now it has at least 30 including my health information, my banking, my fitness, my e mail, maps, my shopping, all the things that i do. so when we think about the usefulness of generative ai at a personal level, it is one thing to ask the internet, what is the best pizza to eat, it s a different thing to ask someone who knows me well. so i would say that is one of the first points. going further down the list, it certainly reminds us of privacy matters and apple is good at that. consumers do not buy technology, they invest in utilities into entertainment. consumers also would use love interface, this is not about chabad or a verbal interface with an application, generative ai will do things like create and analyse so apple is really showcasing the broad set of use cases in the way that generative ai can upgrade experiences. how are you seeing apple placed in china, it has been lacking, but do you see the demand for al making up for that? i think it will be hard with generative ai in china because these models will not translate one for one. it does not like they can t do something for translation, but they were not trained for chinese data, openai is not available in china, there is biases, issues with the language so i think we are still in a bit of a week and see in terms with these announcements need today for those consumers that own these devices in china. tesla ceo elon musk has reacted to apple s announcements. he says apple devices will be banned from his companies if it integrates openai at an operating system level. in a post on his social media platform x, he said allowing the devices would be an unacceptable security violation . mr musk was one of the founders of openai in 2015. but he has since sued the company for allegedly deviating from its non profit mission. turning to china, that makes most of the world s electric cars and ev batteries. a flagging economy has driven some chinese carmakers to expand overseas. but with cheaper chinese evs flooding the global market, the us has imposed tariffs on the vehicles. and the european union is widely expected to follow suit. hans greimel from automotive news gave us a sense of what s at stake. the us as you have just mentioned has a 100% tariff on exports from china and the eu is about to follow suit, although the import tariff rate is not expected to be as high. it is probably going to be around io 25%. that will probably be more than enough to offset the or to out cost the cost of exporting from china to the eu in terms of logistics and shipping. so that basically would reconfigure the cost equation that chinese auto makers face. given the influx of cheaper alternatives to chinese evs something widely reported and talked about, what can china do in the current scenario? probably one immediate impact you will see is a shift perhaps from exporting from china to the eu, instead they will now consider building more factories in the eu, to build locally and that would be one way that the chinese will probably try to get around the idea of doing that. you see this already happening with volvo. volvo was exporting some vehicles from china back to the eu. now they are thinking about re shoring, if you will, putting some of the factory capacity back in europe to feed the local market. over in the us, a senate panel is expanding a probe into bmw over its use of components from a banned chinese supplier. senator ron wyden found last month that the german carmaker imported at least eight thousand mini coopers into the united states, which contained parts from the chinese supplier. he is now inquiring whether the parts were found in any other bmw products. bmw did not immediately respond to a request for comment. the firm said earlier that it had taken steps to halt the importation of affected products. lack of affordable housing is a big issue across much of the world and with an election imminent in the uk, the subject has never been more important. the uk has the highest housing costs in the english speaking world. on average more than a quarter of disposable income is spent on housing. the bbc s economics editor faisal islam explores issues facing the housing sector. as the cost of living squeeze from energy and food costs starts to settle, there is no such luck with housing. mortgage and rental costs are still rising the latter by record amounts. this is a long term issue basic supply and demand as you can see at this new housing development in warwickshire. many of these new homes are going forjust over £300,000. that s bang on the average house price in this country. and we can see how that s changed over the past three decades or so no surprise to see that line going up and up. what has changed has been the relationship with affordability. back in the late 90s, five years worth of annual average income was more than the average house price. now, it s crossed over, the gap is massive and looks very difficult to bridge. it s all about house building. successive governments over years, over decades, have made big promises on house building, often not met. this is what s happened for england, over the past ten years, broken down per three month quarter. a similar pattern across the united kingdom. the conservatives made a promise in 2017, a manifesto commitment in 2019, to meet a target of 300,000 homes per year by the mid 2020s, so that s about 75,000 a quarter. and then there s planning. yes, so, planning permission has therefore been refused. up and down the country, in lengthy councillors meetings just like these, now recorded on council websites. applause. ..there are the familiar sight and sound of new homes not being built, planning permission refused repeatedly. the two main parties do differ here. labour says it s willing to build on specific areas of the green belt that are not so green they call the grey belt. ultimately, both for buying and renting, supply not responding to demand means higher housing costs, the most enduring aspect of the cost of living crisis. more news on openai, it has appointed its first chief financial officer. sarah friar was formerly the ceo of social media firm nextdoor. the company also named a new chief product officer on monday. and that s it for this edition of business today. thanks for watching. hello and welcome to sportsday with me marc edwards. bringing you the action from day four of the european athletics in rome. teams from across europe begin to arrive in germany ahead of euro 202a. south africa squeeze past bangladesh in four runs in a final over thriller in the t20 world cup. hello and welcome to sports day with less than seven weeks ago until the olympics, some contenders have been an action ahead of the global extravaganza in paris. our reporter natalie pirks rounds up reporter natalie pirks rounds up the stories from the italian capital. up the stories from the italian caital. ., , capital. another busy night environment capital. another busy night environment with - capital. another busy night environment with yet - capital. another busy night i environment with yet another gold for host italy to keep them on top of the metal table. on a british point of view, there were two medals, a silver for charlie dobson in the men s from a hundred metre and a bronze in the women s pole vault finals. charlie, another personal best in what was a fantastic season so far. that he was over the moon could not be happier to take silver
apple is taking its shot at redefining artificial intelligence into apple intelligence. the company unveiled a series of ai related announcements at its worldwide developers concerts on monday. chief among them, a partnership with the artificial intelligence juggernaut openai. that will allow apple to integrate start up s cutting edge chat bot chatgpt into its devices including a superpowered siri. the voice assistant will be available with chatgpt features for free later this year. other new additions include ai generated images and emojis and help with proofreading in tone adjustment. these announcement are the big stand apple integrating ai features that have captured viewers attention and spending the big bucks. rewarding terms that are not onlyjumped up but rewarding the ai bandwagon like nvidia that makes the chips that powers the ai revolution. overtaking apple itself to become the second most valuable company in the world by market value position. microsoft which has its own long standing partnership with openai remains the most valuable. apple s entrance into the artificial intelligence space could be viewed as late, when compared to rivals like microsoft and google. but experts say this could herald in a new frontier for the technology. i have been speaking tojulie ask, an independent technology analyst. a few things stood out from the conference for me. first, with the announcement from apple that they are going to imbed generative ai into so many of their device applications and experiences offered to consumers, they remind us with most of the valley with large language value is still at the application layer. they also remind us that generative ai isjust one portion of the experience. consumers do not go out and buy generative ai, they buy or invest in experiences which generative ai can make better. the third thing they remind us with this entry to the market is having access and owning a relationship with the consumers is essential for any kind of success and today apple has over two billion devices installed. where do you see the company now in the ai race, still playing catch up? i would say yes and no. i do not believe apple is late to the ai race, it is later than expected to incorporate ai into its experience but apple has advantages other companies do not. the first is when it comes to consumer personal contacts is so important and apple may have more context than any other entity. at the first iphone launch they had 16 native apps now it has at least 30 including my health information, my banking, my fitness, my e mail, maps, my shopping, all the things that i do. so when we think about the usefulness of generative ai at a personal level, it is one thing to ask the internet, what is the best pizza to eat, it s a different thing to ask someone who knows me well. so i would say that is one of the first points. going further down the list, it certainly reminds us of privacy matters and apple is good at that. consumers do not buy technology, they invest in utilities and entertainment. consumers also would use a lot of interfaces, this is not about chatgpt or a verbal interface with an application, generative ai will do things like create and analyse so apple is really showcasing the broad set of use cases in the way that generative ai can upgrade experiences. tesla ceo elon musk has reacted to apple s announcements. he says apple devices will be banned from his companies if it integrates openai at an operating system level. in a post on his social media platform x, he said allowing the devices would be an unacceptable security violation . mr musk was one of the founders of openai in 2015. but he has since sued the company for allegedly deviating from its non profit mission. turning to china, that makes most of the world s electric cars and ev batteries. a flagging economy has driven some chinese carmakers to expand overseas. but with cheaper chinese evs flooding the global market, the us has imposed tariffs on the vehicles. and the european union is widely expected to follow suit. hans greimel from automotive news gave us a sense of what s at stake. the us as you have just mentioned has a 100% tariff on exports from china and the eu is about to follow suit, although the import tariff rate is not expected to be as high. it is probably going to be around io% 25%. that will probably be more than enough to offset the, or to out cost the cost of exporting from china to the eu in terms of logistics and shipping. so that basically would reconfigure the cost equation that chinese auto makers face. given the influx of cheaper alternatives to chinese evs something widely reported and talked about, what can china do in the current scenario? probably one immediate impact you will see is a shift perhaps from exporting from china to the eu, instead they will now consider building more factories in the eu, to build locally and that would be one way that the chinese will probably try to get around the idea of doing that. you see this already happening with volvo. volvo was exporting some vehicles from china back to the eu. now they are thinking about re shoring, if you will, putting some of the factory capacity back in europe to feed the local market. over in the us, a senate panel is expanding a probe into bmw over its use of components from a banned chinese supplier. senator ron wyden found last month that the german carmaker imported at least 8000 mini coopers into the united states, which contained parts from the chinese supplier. he is now inquiring whether the parts were found in any other bmw products. bmw did not immediately respond to a request for comment. intel has paused plans to construct a 25 billion dollar factory in israel, according to calcalist, an israeli financial news website. responding to the report, intel told the bbc that the industry often needs to adapt to changing timelines. the firm said its decisions are based on business conditions, market dynamics and responsible capital management . it had received a grant for the factory from the israeli government in december amid the war in gaza. lack of affordable housing is a big issue across much of the world and with an election imminent in the uk, the subject has never been more important. the uk has the highest housing costs in the english speaking world. on average more than a quarter of disposable income is spent on housing. the bbc s economics editor faisal islam explores issues facing the housing sector. as the cost of living squeeze from energy and food costs starts to settle, there is no such luck with housing. mortgage and rental costs are still rising the latter by record amounts. this is a long term issue, basic supply and demand. as you can see at this new housing development in warwickshire. many of these new homes are going forjust over £300,000. that s bang on the average house price in this country. and we can see how that s changed over the past three decades or so no surprise to see that line going up and up. what has changed has been the relationship with affordability. back in the late 90s, five years worth of annual average income was more than the average house price. now, it s crossed over, the gap is massive and looks very difficult to bridge. it s all about house building. successive governments over years, over decades, have made big promises on house building, often not met. this is what s happened for england, over the past ten years, broken down per three month quarter. a similar pattern across the united kingdom. the financial crisis, the pandemic, rising interest rates and inflation all can be blamed, but mass house building has only historically been done when government funds it, and the parties seem to agree there isn t the money. in the 60s, local authorities were building a lot of social housing, and that has died down in the 90s, and without this push, we can never get enough new builds. and then there s planning. yes, so, planning permission has therefore been refused. up and down the country, in lengthy councillors meetings just like these, now recorded on council websites. applause. ..there are the familiar sight and sound of new homes not being built, planning permission refused repeatedly. the two main parties do differ here. labour says it s willing to build on specific areas of the green belt that are not so green they call the grey belt. ultimately, both for buying and renting, supply not responding to demand means higher housing costs, the most enduring aspect of the cost of living crisis. before we go, more news on openai. it has appointed its first chief financial officer. sarah friar was formerly the ceo of social media firm nextdoor. the company also named a new chief product officer on monday. and that s it for this edition of business today. thanks for watching. hello and welcome to sportsday with me marc edwards. bringing you the action from day four of the european athletics in rome. teams from across europe begin to arrive in germany ahead of euro 202a. south africa squeeze past bangladesh in four runs in a final over thriller in the t20 world cup. hello and welcome to sportsday. with less than seven weeks to go until the olympics, some contenders have been in action ahead of the global extravaganza in paris. our reporter natalie pirks rounds up the stories from the italian capital. another busy night night in rome with yet another gold for host italy to keep them on top of the medal table. on a british point of view, there were two medals, a silverfor charlie dobson in the men s a00m and a bronze for molly caudery in the women s pole vault finals. for charlie, another personal best in what is a fantastic season so far for him. he said he was over the moon and could not be happier to take silver in what was his first individual major 400 metre final. the race was won by belgium alexander doom with a new championship record.
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three-to-one, three-to-one today with violet birth, we have schreiber tonight, did nine on cnn welcome, to the whole, store i m anderson cooper, drag is an odd form that s been around for centuries, including shakespeare s times. women weren t allowed back then to appear on stage. so man dressed up to play the roles of female characters drag performances have evolved a lot over the decades, exploding in mainstream popularity in recent years with tv hits like rupaul s drag race. but now it s also become a political target. republican lawmakers and six days have passed laws aimed at restricting drag performances and places where children are present. the laws have been amended, blocked, are currently being challenged in federal courts. over the next hour, cnn s randy k digs into the colorful history of drag it takes a look at how and why its come under attack this. is how it begins yes, it is always starts with the foundation can sealer and foundation. right well, concealed. he just got some foundational not yet, but give me a few years. i probably well, we re going to let off quite how long does it take you to get all made up but phone drag it varies. would on average, you re talking 30 or 40 minutes, but the transition from your average homosexual to ravishing drag queen interesting it s good to see the process step by step. some can enjoy every bit it s my moment to just take myself into a whole another world and just be happy despite whatever going around at the palace bar and restaurant in miami south beach well, tiffany tiffany phantasia is lip-sync into the song, rather be by clean banded so she is slang. that s a drag term for killing it. she s been performing and drag for 20 years in drag. i feel more powerful i feel three. i feel independent. i feel love, i feel joy, especially when i m seeing some papers i love. the freedom of expression. i love making somebody has, i love the glitz and glam because no matter what i m going through a growing through somebody else, is that energy and for those five minutes nothing matters what do you think is the draw for an audience? why do you think people? i tend to directions because it s different. it goes against the status quo. it challenges society we are told as we grow up, you re supposed to act this way, talk this way to this man. that third and here s some body defying all events and performing for you. whether seeing live our lives, thinking or whatever they re defying the social norm, they re going against eagle and that s fascinating for a lot of people drag has fascinated audiences for more than a century there were hugely popular drag balls in harlem during the roaring 20s in the 50s and 60s, crowds packed into clubs featuring what were referred to at the time as female impersonators before a backlash shove, drag into the shadows but perhaps no one has helped bring dragged back into the spotlight today more than dragged superstar rupaul s with the tv competition show rupaul s drag race? sashay, away. but a hit show has been running for 16 seasons collecting a whopping 29 emmy awards along the way. rupaul s world. of wonder production company has built a drag empire launching drag race tv franchises. these type of good is minus zeta, a call in more than a dozen countries around the world. ready, i can show. was on drag race. the audience is connecting with the tenacity of the human spirit that s what that show is really about when you you tear it down to just nuts and bolts we all relate to someone who has been cast off and they prove us wrong. i remember, you can t love yourself. how the how you go, love somebody out. thanks in part to rue rupaul s drag has become more popular than ever. there are dragged branches, drag dinner shows, drag beauty pageants even drag bingo wright, eric, he was we re getting so close to me drag is the main attraction every new year s eve in key west, florida afraid at all, you re just kind of dangling up here a crowd of enthusiasts so revelers counts down to midnight as a drag queen descends from the balcony at this bar in a giant high-heeled shoe we found that queen of this. i ve reported live from these it s devotees for years. and now i m left wondering how did this can t be form of entertainment becomes such a target for the political right. like it is here in my home state of florida republican lawmakers and right-wing leaders across the country are pushing through laws restricting drag shows the law here in florida signed by republican governor ron desantis it aimed at banning children from attending drag shows. it blocks venues are publicly permitted events from admitting children to an adult live performance which according to the law includes any performance that quote, depicts or simulates the lwd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts there are these like these drag shows sexually explicit in what they re doing in luck adult entertainment, people can do what they want with some of that, but there should not be any of these kids. they re the law is up in the air now after a federal judge put it on hold pending a state appeals supporters of the restrictions claim that drag shows are harmful to children. some accused drag queens of being child a derogatory term often used to demonize members of the lgbtq community as pedophiles good the desantis administration filed a complaint against the miami restaurant. our house accusing it of exposing minors to what it called sexually explicit drag shows and threatening to pull its liquor license after a state investigation found no unlawful content in the performances the venue, which denied any wrongdoing, agreed to pay a $10,000 administrative fine and set a minimum age requirement of 18 for their drag shows read coming to your city. does desantis officials also threatened to yank the liquor licenses of the plaza live theatre in orlando, and the hyatt regency in miami for hosting an event called a drag queen christmas we re minors accompanied by their parents, were present even though a report by undercover state agents acknowledged they did not witness any lewd acts. both settled for a $5,000 fine. it is specifically intended with the heightened penalties ten $10,000 fines and fees the suspension of liquor licenses to create fear and to intimidate businesses out of wanting to host drag performances, especially when there are unclear about exactly what is allowed and what is not allowed representative smith, democratic carlos guillermo smith was florida s first lgbtq latino lawmaker. he s currently running for state senate it has led to a chilling effect with pride as well. several pride events across florida have also been canceled or restricted out of concern, drag queens might be seen by children in public resign, hit, particularly hard by the political backlash drag queen story hours like this there once was a boy with the rainbow harms they had signed saying that drag queens were pedophiles with aids. they were yelling and screaming at children and families. were you scared? i was scared. i was scared welcome to the waiver hood with waves. they re finding your style is fine when the music stops grabbing, it, doesn t matter i ll just dollars i m sorry, carl, this is me and chair form i don t see you this one perfect for you, but you love it. i told you we should have done opinion data i explained it how many dei then i d said you need to sit down every style, every home that they blocked the road trip everyone comfortable? yep. there s plenty of space hi, david gardner right. no, no going on one once arrive okay. i gave him and see despicable me before and theaters july 3rd rated pg last month, massive solar flare out at a 24 hour to the day, businesses are wondering what should we do with bacon and eggs 257, right? so spots from 20% with additional hour extra hour on thinking up the white power. now, let s put it through a book this is going to wreak havoc on overtime approvals anything can change the world of work from hr to payroll adp designs, forward-thinking solutions to take on the next, anything bookstores, i read that one. i read that one. i read that. i didn t read that one. didn t read that. can you get this? because i left fireball way in my back pocket pleasure because i earn unlimited 2% cashback this is fascinating. did you know wheels and barnacles have a parasitic relationship though i d filled parasitic relationships, let s go barnacle a few, limited 2% cashback. the wells fargo active cash credit card minus sunday morning in lakeland, florida, not far from tampa story hour is getting underway. not just any story hour we can fit a table here jason dechambeau and his team of volunteers are setting up for the big event a family drag brunch and store yellow it s one of the many fundraisers he stages for his non-profit, the rows dynasty foundation he hosts all the events in drag the children and their parents know jason as a drag queen named mama ashley rows tell me just a little bit about your background. i was involved in church pretty much my whole life, which led me to get into ministry. and the whole time i knew i was gay, i knew i was struggling even through all that journey feeling of unwanted nus and unloved and never being good enough to where here i am today spreading this message that everyone it was love accepted, and wanted no matter who they are. i remember how it felt to not feel that way. so it s kinda drives me to do what i do today you were once a pastor at an lgbt church, was like pastor mike today, drag queen by night and again, the drag queen, it wasn t even just by night. we started doing events. we started doing fundraisers variety shows, drag dinner shows, drag gospel shows raising money for those in need perfect. it can be $100, could be a couple of thousand dollars. and our events and we not only focus on queer lgbtq plus charities, but we focus on animal shelters, domestic violence, mental health i always knew that my character, mama ashley rose was going to be something different. you re going to be wholesome, going to be not the club bar scene because it was never really my scene. and i just knew that i had to bring something to the table that no one else was doing i look forward to meeting oh, i can t wait for you to meet mama nice to reach. nice to meet you. good seeing you, to see you too. so tell me about you. so mama is just a southern lady that spreads a message to everyone is loved, accepted, and wanted no matter who they are. and we provide a safe space so my job is to make people for loved, make people feel safe, give them a little laugh, a little chocolate sometime i don t when people think of a drag queen this is not the look that i think most people think of. what if my life could bring. it s changed make somebody move absolutely. so drag is an art form and we know that art comes in all shapes, sizes types, and everything. and i love to tell people we have adult television, we have children s television, we have adult radio toluse radio, all that. so i m kinda like the disney channel of drag, who s ready for story time? all. kids if you can come up and have a seat on the floor. so for me, dragged story hour is first of all, teaching literacy. there once was a boy with, uh, rainbow heart it looks a little different. we know that illiteracy is an issue and the world right now. but teaching and reading about kindness, my books are about kindness, about love, about loving yourself. we read stories about how to handle bullies and the list goes on with that, just teaching life skills, you see it s literally just a person in a costume no different than a disney princess reading a story to kids and adults. my sparkly earrings, they see it as this like glamorous princess they re going to listen to a story from someone dressed in a costume before they will have just any random person what kind of backlash have you faced doing drag story hour up until last year? we had no issues and a year ago this december, we had neo-nazis show up outside this building. they had signs saying that drag queens were pedophiles with aids they were projecting on the side of buildings saying that grooming was in process. they were yelling and screaming at children and families. were you scared? i was scared. i was scared jason says he also had to find a new location for an annual drag pageant at the last minute, because the orlando venue was afraid of being targeted by the desantis administration they were really concerned about losing their liquor license so they asked us to make our event 18 up and my response was like, no, i m not going to make an event 18 up when it never has been we don t do 18 and up events. so we had four days to find a new venue to move a whole paget, a whole production show shortly after that in orlando high school was forced to cancel an event featuring jayson he had been scheduled to speak to the school s queer and ally alliance. i have been invited by students for years to go in and the students invite me and of course, with approval of educators and this after-school program, after school club. and i usually say, do you want me to come as json or do want me come as momma and always i mean, they wanted to drag queen, right? so a woman who is part of the moms for liberty, who is also on the orange county school board, basically had a shutdown educators and the principal and the dean were literally their jobs were being threatened if they allow this event to happen. that school board member, alicia for ronde, says she raised questions after hearing complaints it s from dozens of parents but an investigative report by spectrum news 13 in orlando revealed a majority of the emails for ron to received about the event were supportive of it. we have reached out several times different for a response to the report, but i ve heard nothing back i just wanted to be a drag queen and tell funny stories and make people laugh i had no idea it was going to be in this atmosphere. it s scary time. it was a scary time for us secondly, fear of threats, fear of safety the political backlash, jason and many others are now experiencing is familiar to me anyone who knows the history drag more on that next. every week, there ll be police raids every time there was a police raid, it was people in states of drag who were arrested the simons are going off and the tornado here i m thinking, i m going to die. and i thought that was violin earth with liev schreiber donated nine on cnn did you know sling has your favorite news progress for just $40 a month my favorite news for just $40 a month my favorite news for just $40 a month. $40 a month? my favorite for just $40 a month $40 get your favorite news. are $40 a month sling lets you do that with so many choices on booking.com, there are so many tina fey as i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out splurge 18. it loves a hotel near row de you drive 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gorgeous, 200 page book outlining the history of drag and the political backlash against it. all intertwined with anecdotes from my own irresistible and unpredictable relevance to clean you re welcome why do you think the history of drag is so important? the history of drag is important because people don t know. and in fact, it feels like their cycles of acceptance and then backlash that have happened throughout history sasha grew up steeped in drag history one of sasha is biggest influences this was her grandmother dina she encouraged me to channel lane or diva. she coached me on how to make an inference and the gown the her condo had like one set of stairs coming down from the loft and i would put my costume on up there and then walked down the stairs dramatically. so i have a lot one of her grandmother s favorite hotspots, uh, clubs spotlighting female impersonators in san francisco called for nokia s she would go to for nokia on the weekends drive in from the suburbs of daly city and of course it was a club mostly targeted for straight audiences. and she loved the drag shows. she thought it was so entertaining, and she told you about it. and she told me about it as a little kid. i feel very lucky that i grew up with out shame around drag, at least at home female impersonator clubs across the country, including one in new york called club at t2, became all the rage during the 1950s and 60s the people. who came to the ad to club were everyday people your mom and dad may have come to the 82 club, but also it was packed with celebrities judy garland, milton, berle, elizabeth taylor, richard burton, errol flynn salvador dali, the surrealist, of course, loved drag and the ad he to club dragging the us has strong roots going back to harlem racially diverse groups of people flocked to the rockland palace for headline grabbing drag balls hosted by a black fraternal organization called the hamilton lodge during the harlem renaissance and the roaring 20s harlem drag balls were enlarge pageant deep masquerade experience. and it was meant largely for the black community later on, there started to be more and more white patrons alyssa max goodman wrote a book on the history of drag in new york city called glitter and concrete after a while, they re just became thousands upon thousands of people who would attend. there were prizes given for the best costumes. it was an affair that was i mean, i think it was considered social suicide. if you didn t go in the early 1900s, one of the biggest celebrities in the country, julian l tinge, performed in drag julia elton was one of the top paid performers in vaudeville of julia elton was a female impersonator. so there was this appetite for that type of entertainment we re looking to week four of the class, joey jeffries is a drag. his story, who also teaches a course on rupaul s drag race at the new school in new york city. and at new york university julia elton was very successful financially, artistically. julian elton had any number of plays with music on broadway julian l2 and had his on makeup line, his on magazines. julian l2 inch have a theater named after him el tinge also became a big movie star in films like the aisle of love featuring a van unknown rudolph valentino the premise of his movies was very much like the premise of his plays. which is also part of his identity. i m a guy. i m in some life-threatening situation that requires me to get an address and that is the only reason i am getting an address. it s the sum like get hot narrative it s a similar premise and the hollywood hit movie starring tony curtis and jack lemmon, as well as other hugely successful films like tutsi mrs. down, fire thank you for denia. don t fire drag was also popular among members of the us military. broadway productions and movies portrayed soldiers performing and drag shows for the troops drag was central to a morale effort during world war two. and to the point where eisenhower was giving commendations to troops that use dragged to say that you are doing a great job in your serving your country. in irving berlin, in stage musical, became a movie featuring soldiers and drag called this is the army starring none other than ronald reagan ready to the chorus curtain? but appearing in drag outside the movies and female impersonator clubs was a far different story. there were very strict rules at the club at two, for example, where he men had to arrive in men s clothes, put on their makeup, their and then leave in men s clothes that s largely due to a crackdown on what we now call drag queens and gaze during the mccarthy era in the 50s, that became known as the lavender scare. the attitude at the time that created the lavender scare was homosexuality was as much a threat to the us as communism. it was a dark period in the 50s four draft your performance because there was legislation out there that was stopping it banning it, and trying to restrict it somewhat in the ways that we re seeing today. we really never had a law that banned drag. but there was a law on the books here in new york that band masquerading and they started enforcing this ancient law against masquerade to cut down on people dressing up outside of their legal gender. if you re caught in a bar or walking the street and you didn t have enough pieces of the appropriate gender clothing on you literally would be taken to jail. being a drag queen was something shameful and you would maybe lose your job if people found out that you d like to dress and drag you could lose your family institutional and cultural stigma against drag was huge and it was deeply tied to fears of brown trans, people. and even around like gay people generally that harassment and discrimination against drag queens would go on to play a vital role in the uprising that ignited the fight for lgbtq rights that might finally, they d had enough of it they didn t enough of being pushed around it change that night next sunday on the whole story, the james webb telescope has delivered amazing pictures of our universe couldn t show signs of life on other planets. that s the holy grail. and we re searching the whole story with anderson cooper next sunday at eight on cnn the increase in wildfires is exponential unpredictable uncontrollable with overwhelming cottonwoods. the need to do something is urgent violet birth with we have schreiber next on cnn karni is golda. it s got a nassau them that s what i got. igneous harnik got to me. her name, but with more and useful michelin innovates once more with michelin acoustic technology reducing kevin noise by cushioning road vibrations michelin motion for life so far as helping me get my money right to achieve my ambition keep like saving for an epic shoe we re so by checking and savings, i pay no account fees and earned one of the best apy is in the lead. so parking help fund, all your ambitions. like helping the next next-generation achieved their a higher apy epic 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you. learn more at cisa.gov/secureourworld that s how we can secure our world! we can secure our world. don t just use a password alone. mfa sends a call, a text or a code to your phone. learn more at cisa.gov/secureourworld that s how we can secure our world! than american rush to walmart and find buttered mushrooms. the cnn presidential debates, june 27th, nine live on cnn and streaming un-backed next in the pre-dawn hours on a saturday morning in june 1969 trouble erupted in the heart of new york city s greenwich village, at a bar called this stonewalling he was the only place that we could come in and the ourself mark segal was a regular at the stonewall, a mafia run gay bar, which paid corrupt cops to look the other way at a time when being gay could get you arrested you were inside the stonewall inn when the raid happened that triggered the uprising. what do you remember about that lights blinking, which never happened while i had been in there before usually array and they happen too often. was pleased to come in, take a pay off, and leave this was a little different rather than coming in and coming through doors commonly, they burst through the doors they started throwing things around. they were pick up the bottles, throw them away they took people, slam them against the wall. they smashed everything they could possibly see somebody started throwing things to do or when the police wanted to leave a stone according to have them your pocket. those people who actually fought that night or street kids like me, marginalized people, drag queens so drag queens were on the front lines. the stonewall up absolutely almost everything we did in that first year, which i call the first magical year leading from stonewall to the first pride. all of that had drag queens involved in every aspect there wasn t a demonstration that they weren t present some way, shape or form. they were at the meetings giving their voice, getting their opinion two of the most prominent activist to emerge from the movement where drag queens, marsha p. johnson and sylvia rivera, both women of color, who became icons of the fight for lgbtq rights. the two form to trans rights group and open north america s first lgbtq youth center i think one of the most impactful things that sylvia rivera and marsha p. johnson did was found a house that became a safe place for young queer and trans people for teenagers who had escaped home for homeless kids living in new york to come and live. and they called it the street transvestite action revolutionaries, or star house the became like an, an activist organization as well as a hub and a home for so many in need to do around the same time, gay and transgender kids founded another safe haven in an emerging underground drag scene called the house ballroom. it s like forcing into the looking glass captured in the critically acclaimed documentary. paris is burning and depicted in the tv hit post forum started in harlem in the 1960s it was created by drag queens of the time latino and african-american drag queens, who wanted to create her own pageants because that s what they were in the beginning. they were pageants. they were tired of competing in the patch since that were downtown and losing to their white counterparts beautiful. felix rodriguez get is as a filmmaker who has been documenting house ballroom culture for decades seen on his youtube channel, old school ballroom a boil is like the super bowl for black and latino, where people it s where all these houses which are like teams come to this venue to compete against each other it s a group of people that are together as a family. they can be compared to everything from be similar to fraternity and sorority to being a gay gang. it was a time when gay men and trans people pool of color were thrown out of their houses, literally from their family. and they had to find a place to live houses were the communities that welcomed people they ll situations a competitive new dance style also came out of the ballroom scene bogeying, which is very powerful hello, in a lot of people think that madonna created it, but she had vogue dancers in her tour and created song logan became in popular but vogue ing started in the ballroom scene and still continues to be in the ballroom scene the ballroom culture is still thriving today. in fact, the venue where we interviewed felix rodriguez is a brooklyn club named $3 bill that host weekly ballroom competitions called ota, or open to all right now, but back when ballroom was still under to ground, another drag phenomenon was also hitting the scene he was wearing mohawks and shoulder pads and waiting boots. let s just say that the repo of today look had not yet come together lady bunny is now an iconic drag queen who s been making audiences laugh for more than 40 years they tried to make me go to rehab and i said, you know what, that s done? an idea are you nervous not at all, but she got her start back in the 80s when drag was far from mainstream, along with another relatively obscure performer at the time named ru paul oh you want once they send that to the audience we met in atlanta and we re instantly as thick as thieves so what was the scene like? did you bond there will ruin. i did bond there at one point, we became homeless to get i came to new york with root paul. we can to the pyramid this is in 1983 and i was drunk i lip-sync to, i will survive halfway through it. there s that little low in the song. where did she comes back with the big gone now, go during that low, i had fallen lost a shoe and the wig was hanging by a thread, but i got up there on that one shoe and finish the rest of the number and i was a favorite at the pyramid wir sind then at the time all of this drag and all of this fun was happening at the pyramid. the specter of aids was raised and of course we were young and sexually active. we didn t know what to do. you found in wig stock yes. to help raise funds for the aids crisis? yes i started wig stuck in a park across the pyramid. i wanted to showcase the many different kinds of talent it. was drag queens who lyptsi lip-sync for example i just felt that there was this wealth of talent that could appeal to a wider audience. and my hunch was correct aids was running, ramping through new york how was drag and wigs docx a, a political reaction to what the reagan administration was doing or not doing. i think that the political statement was that there s no shame in our game that there s nothing wrong with us that we love what we do. and then it s entertaining so i felt like what my role was to be a jester and to put on a fun show to make us forget about aids, to make us forget about everything except we re still here and we re glad that we re here. and let s celebrate week stock went on to draw crowd swelling into the thousands stock, as well as becoming a subject of a welding receive documentary week stop. the movie, launching lady bunny into the limelight root. paul began rising to start ms well, transforming her punk drag look into the glamorous glitz of her breakout hit supermodel and paul definitely knew how to work in growing up, i knew i would be famous. i knew i wanted to be famous. i didn t know how i was going to be famous drag presented itself to me and i thought, okay, this is is the rest is root hall would say is history you may leave the stage rupaul s drag race over the past 16 years has hot rotted dragged back into the mainstream public consciousness. it makes drag accessible not only as an art form, but in a place that people can watch it right there on their television screen or streaming all that success may drag a huge draw for detractors to do no such thing as a family friendly drag show. we re going to make that clear in the state of florida coming up, a sponsor of the florida law aimed at drags speaks out and drag queens clap bashing. do i look like a stripper anderson cooper 360 weeknight today on cnn the increase in wildfires is exponential, unpredictable, uncontrollable, with overwhelming the need to do something is urgent. slightly birth with we have schreiber her next two months. cnn that they blocked the road, turn everyone comfortable, yet there s plenty of space got it. right? no, no, don t go just wait them out the volkswagen atlas with three rows and seating seven everyone wants arrive okay. good gibeon. and see despicable me before and theaters july 3, rated pg last month, massive solar flare added a 24 hour to the day. businesses are wondering what should we do with eggs 257 right so for stocks present with the additional hour with the extra hour, i m thinking a py power now, let s put it through a book this is going to wreak havoc on overtime approvals anything can change the world of work from hr to payroll adp designs, forward-thinking solutions to take on the next anything? oh, karni isolde, it s gotten me. i saw them godden and saada got a nice got to me, got juicy reducing kevin noise by cushioning road vibrations michelin motion for life welcome to the waiver hood with wave. finding your style is fine the music stops grabbing. it, doesn t not dollars i m sorry, carl, this is me in chair form. i don t see you come on. perfect for you. love it. i told you we should have done opinion ada i explained it is how many died they re not sending you need to sit down, a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! to claim your five-dollar trial duties celebrating freedom and legacy. wednesday, june 19 at ten on cnn. close captioning brought to you by ru la law. i kinda brands up to 70% off retail at roulette law.com, rubella you never pay full price sees the deals on top before their car southward like their sisters at stonewall drag queens and florida are fighting back this was the scene in tallahassee in april of last year when hundreds of drag artists and their supporters marched on the florida state camp to protest the law aimed at restricting grab former democratic state lawmaker carlos guillermo smith, address the crowd from the state house steps they are fabulous are urea if you look at the current law in florida, it does not specifically mention a ban on drag shows. so what s wrong with it well, it doesn t have to directly mentioned drag queens for it to be targeting this community. in particular, when this legislation was filed it was filed by a republican lawmaker who made many ugly assertions and baseless attacks on drag queens as being a threat to children well, guess where else drag queens aren t and brynn mention in a big long list in the 20 line definition of this bill that republican lawmaker, he s referring to, is this man, florida state representative randy fine this bill didn t talk about drag queen it doesn t mention the word drag queens deals yet when representative fine, introduced the bill, which further restricts laws already on the books, protecting children from adult live performances he posted on facebook that would ban the city of melbourne from welcoming drag queen adult entertainers from grooming our children. it s not mentioned in the bill, but you have mentioned it in a post that s fair point, but that is the kind of entertainment that inspired me. to do the bill. you hadn t men dressed as strippers effectively performing as such in public? i don t care what consenting adults do, but i think we should keep this stuff away from our kids. what was the goal of the bill, the gold the bill to protect kids. what specifically do you think children need to be protected from? well, i think they need to be protected from sexualization. it s totally unnecessary and the fact that we already have so many good laws to protect children from adult performances. it exposed that this bill was really just about targeting drag if you think the law is targeting drag shows and drag queens, why not just mentioned that directly? because if they overtly mentioned drag performances in the letter of the law, it would have immediately been obvious to any attorney in any the judge that this is an unconstitutional censorship of their first amendment freedom representative fine argues that while the law mentions prosthetic breasts, which many drag queens where it spells out other criteria that would be necessary to make drag shows admitting children illegal so wearing prosthetic breasts does not equal an adult life performance. it has to be that and three or four other things. this is all meant to be vague. it s meant to intimidate, isn t there a danger in intimidating some of these venues from hosting drag? performances or not intimidating them were laying out what the definition is and we re saying if you do these, there s going to be consequences. do you think drag queen shows and drag queen story hours can be family-friendly no, i don t. that doesn t mean they re all illegal. that doesn t mean they re all adult life performances. but no, i don t believe it s appropriate for kids do you see drag queens as a threat to children i think that s a challenging question. that s like saying, do you think adults are a threat to let me put it this. i do think drag queens are looking to groom children. are they groomer? i think some are. i don t understand why a man wants to dress up like a woman. and then read stories to children. i don t think it s that complicated that doesn t mean that 100% of those violate the law. i want to be clear about that. how would that be harmful to children? because i think it confuses them drag queen story, our says our goal in doing this is to celebrate gender fluidity. there is a purpose behind this, and it is to confuse and indoctrinate children in a majority of this legislature, we do not believe in gender fluidity we do not believe in transgender science. do you know of one case of a child who attended drag queen story hour and then decided to become transgender. i do not know. have you ever been to drag queen story hour? no. have you ever been to a drag show not that i can remember. most of these people and i ve seen have never even been to a drag show. they ve never experienced the drag is an art and seeing that there are different types of drag jayson to dechambeau traveled to the florida capital when the bill was being debated. he did to testify before the legislature in full drag mama ashley robes. i have a question. do i look like a stripper? well, i walked up and my first response and comment to those do i look like a stripper because many politicians have said that i dress like strippers, like i don t dress like that. do you see yourself as a threat to children? no, i do not see myself as a threat to children nor do i see any drag performer threat to a child. drag performers know that if you re in a club, if you re in a nightclub, fearing a bar 18 and up, you perform differently, right? especially in our events, are performers know that when we have family here they dress different. they perform different. so now we know threat. but the overall message and the reason why you do drag story hour as what to teach that message that your love accepted and wanted no matter who you are and let you know that everyone should read the idea of the grooming that dragged does is just the message of tolerance. and that the message of acceptance could be so dangerous that it would brainwash a child. maybe if they don t want a world of tolerance they should be afraid of us because we are fighting for that. you know, about the history of drag. having written a book about it, do you worry about the history repeating itself? the history is repeating itself currently all around us. for awhile, it felt like we were getting progress they say if you don t learn the past, you re going to repeat it i think there s a lot of strength to be found in history to we see the way that despite being thrown in jail, despite being fine, despite losing their jobs queer people continued to gather together and put on shows and find ways to keep existing and stay true to ourselves. so if they can do it, we still have a chance today how much do you think gender identity and sexuality are playing a role in? these new laws that are targeting drag, gender, identity and sexuality are the reason that drag is being targeted. because if it was just costumes without any possibility of queerness, i think it would be fine they re ignorant and the ruud and homophobia i would tell ron desantis, we are not your political pawns stop using that s for clickbait the one and only miss tiffany fantasia there are tim million other things that you need to be taken care of and put policies in place to circumvent the problems of the average flow of radiant here we worried about a dam drag show. we re not doing anything, but making sure that you people i haven t a good time and not worry about the problem that they have because you re not doing your job governor desantis has not responded to our request for comment in her drag show called don t bring the kids, lady bunny takes on republican lawmakers pushing anti legislation with a parody of adele s song. rumor has it but given the guns birthday is that hooters with your under gop hypocrisy can t take it no more dreadfully aren t the people is d to watch out for groomer? is it? rumor? is it despite the crackdowns, these drag queens insist the drag show will go on. i would be a miss to stay. i wasn t scared. i d be a miss to say that i there are times i just want to pack the makeup up and not do it again but i m not going anywhere. we re going to keep fighting there is a fighting spirit in drag we can make magic with nothing and even if they take everything, like for a month we re still going to find a way to put on a show to entertain the thing i ve found is people love drag if we have a chance to put on a show for you, you re going to fall in love legal battles over drag performances continue. so far, laws proposed in florida texas, tennessee, and montana had been blocked by federal judges on constitutional grounds. the states are appealing those decisions. thanks for watching the whole story. i ll see you next sunday
as the billionaire pop star s eras tour gets underway in scotland. welcome to business today. i m sally bundock. more now on the results in europe as the bloc s parliamentary elections come to a close. as you ve been hearing, we ve seen a surge on the right across the region. we ve seen a surge to the right across the region. in france, the strong showing for marine le pen s national rally triggering a snap election in france called late yesterday by president emmanuel macron. the outcome of these elections are of significance because the politicians in the european parliament will be agreeing on the bloc s budget and economic policies and its position on trade. the european union is the world s largest trading bloc the top trading partner for 80 countries worldwide. with 27 member countries and an integrated economy, it has a combined population of around 440 million people. that s a vast consumer base for its own producers and exporters around the world. let s hear now from rebecca christie, senior fellow at bruegel. good morning to you, rebecca. first of all, your reaction to the results? first of all, your reaction to the results? the situation in france is the results? the situation in france is shocking. - the results? the situation in france is shocking. not - the results? the situation in france is shocking. notjust| france is shocking. notjust that the national rally party came in with 32% of the vote, but that it was really twice that of emmanuel macron s renaissance party and that he called snap elections so soon after, because he felt he could not govern without a new mandate. not govern without a new mandate- not govern without a new mandate. ., ., , ., ~ mandate. so, what do you think drove voters mandate. so, what do you think drove voters to mandate. so, what do you think drove voters to the drove voters to the centre right and further right? was it about economics? cost of living crisis? the fact that people are feeling worse off at the moment? it’s that people are feeling worse off at the moment? off at the moment? it s very different. off at the moment? it s very different, country off at the moment? it s very different, country by - off at the moment? it s veryl different, country by country. you do see a lot of discontent with the status quo, and a feeling of frustration. in france, that turned out, as we just discussed. in hungary, for example, viktor orban s party is facing a challenge for the first time in recent memory. in germany, the centre right christian democratic union, which is a very mainstream party, did better than people might have expected. however, olaf scholz, the current chancellor his party did worse. so we re seeing just a general sense that folks would like to do something different. going forward, when it comes to the big decisions about the budget, for example, which is really controversial how much money each country puts in the pot what does this result mean for those kind of discussions and negotiations going forward? the discussions and negotiations going forward? going forward? the new parliament going forward? the new parliament will - going forward? the new parliament will probably going forward? the new i parliament will probably be more unpredictable, or even more unpredictable, or even more unpredictable and very fractious. i would expect different alliances to form on different alliances to form on different issues. the consensus on financial regulation will be different from that on, perhaps, environmental regulation and energy regulation. again, on the budget, as you say one of the big decisions coming up is whether the eu will continue to be a bond borrower the way it has been through the pandemic. and deciding what to do with the remains of this pandemic borrowing programme and whether to have another one after 2026 will be a huge deal. will be a huge deal. we ve mentioned will be a huge deal. we ve mentioned globally - will be a huge deal. we ve mentioned globally the . will be a huge deal. we vej mentioned globally the eu will be a huge deal. we ve - mentioned globally the eu bloc is the biggest trading bloc in the world. what does this mean in terms of its global position economically? in terms of its global position economically? the eu really has to balance economically? the eu really has to balance its economically? the eu really has to balance its relationship - to balance its relationship with china and also its relationship with washington. the us, of course, has its own elections coming up later this year that will be at least as much of an effect on that will have at least as much of an effect on what s going on in europe as the eu political situation. meanwhile, with china, we are expecting in the next week or so to get some news on how the eu is going to approach automobile tariffs. all of this sets the stage for a lot of debate about how open, how much trade, how is the eu going to de risk and not de couple, as they say? because the eu cannot afford to stop trading with china, but it also wants to protect itself. fik. wants to protect itself. 0k. interesting. wants to protect itself. 0k. interesting. thank - wants to protect itself. 0k. interesting. thank you - wants to protect itself. ok. interesting. thank you for your time. good to get your take this morning. seniorfigures from germany s governing coalition have reacted angrily to a speech by the chief executive of deutsche borse, theodor vymer. in it, he railed against the country s reputation amongst investors and said germany was on the path to becoming a developing country. the speech was delivered to the bavarian economic council in april, but surfaced on social media on friday. a leading social democrat told the financial times it was more beer tent than dax listed company executive, while a green party spokeswoman tweeted her irritation on x. here are some excerpts from that speech. translation: i know half the dax peeple translation: i know half the dax people here translation: i know half the dax people here personally i translation: | know half the | dax people here personally on a first name basis. i get around a lot. i don t want to spoil it tonight, but one thing is clear. our reputation has never been as bad as it is now. economically speaking, we are on the way to becoming a developing country. we re making ourselves small in front of brussels and berlin, the entrepreneurs. yes, and the americans tell me straight to my face, stop being a public economy that sits like a rabbit in front of a snake and demands that the snake bite. become a private economy like us. the difference is now that, in the usa, they say, we don t care which old man becomes president. our migration policy i don t want to get too political is seen by everyone as completely wrong. our focus on do gooders everyone as completely wrong. ourfocus on do gooders is not shared anywhere. economic migration means that, if you have a shortage of skilled workers, you bring in people who work, who speak your language, and generate social products. but not those who collect 50% of the citizens income and send it somewhere else. let s explore all that now with russ mould, investment director at aj bell. good morning to you, russ. good morninu. good morning to you, russ. good morning- this good morning to you, russ. good morning. this is good morning to you, russ. good morning. this is really good morning to you, russ. good morning. this is really come - morning. this is really come interesting morning. this is really come interesting that morning. this is really come interesting that this - morning. this is really come interesting that this comes i morning. this is really come l interesting that this comes to the fore now off the back of these parliamentary elections in europe, where actually things worked out quite differently for germany as well and for chancellor olaf scholz. - and for chancellor olaf scholz. ., ., - and for chancellor olaf scholz. . ., ., m scholz. yeah, i had a quick look on scholz. yeah, i had a quick look on x scholz. yeah, i had a quick look on x this scholz. yeah, i had a quick look on x this morning, . look on x this morning, formerly known as twitter, and it now has 470,000 views although only 13,000 of those who ve watched it have liked it, which is interesting in itself. it does raise some big issues. germany has been through geopolitical shock because of its dependence on russian oil and gas, which it s now had to wean itself off. its economically performed pretty poorly even in the first pandemic period. even the stock market one of its major companies is going through a mire in the courts, so you can see why there s a crisis of confidence. from an investment point of view, however, the german stock market is pretty much still at an all time high. i know vymer said it sjust because german trades are trading cheaply and it s like a junkjob, but international junk job, but international investors junkjob, but international investors still think, indeed, there is still something to look for in germany. he seemed to be venting look for in germany. he seemed to be venting a look for in germany. he seemed to be venting a lot look for in germany. he seemed to be venting a lot of to be venting a lot of frustration in this speech. i have heard other economists that i ve talked to, when they ve been talking about germany, talking about the fact that the lack of investment over time, and the fact that china is now really, when it comes to the car sector in terms of electric vehicles, in particular, taking so much ground, which is germany s most important market.? ground, which is germany s most important market. . . ? ground, which is germany s most important market. . . ? important market.? yeah - and what happens important market.? yeah - and what happens to important market.? yeah - and what happens to the important market.? yeah - and what happens to the internal- what happens to the internal combustion engine for germany is a huge issue. but a lot of theissues is a huge issue. but a lot of the issues that vymer is raising energy, tax, welfare spending, immigration it s a bit of a big echo of what we re hearing in the uk general election campaign where i m sitting right now. and it looks as if the uk s going to shift to the left, whereas europe is shifting to the right. again, there s a discontent with the status quo which we re hearing about. vymer talks about how america is uccing up a lot of investment, whereas germany s finding it hard to attract it. it s interesting that, on one half, he says we need interproblemers and need a smaller state. interproblemers and need a smallerstate. on interproblemers and need a smaller state. on the other hand, he s saying we need smaller subsidies. you can t have your cake and eat it too can t have everything at once. at the same time, it s coming on social media olaf scholz s party getting the worst ever result in the european election, coming third behind the far right alternative for germany. i mean, in his party, in his coalition, there s going to be a lot of naval gazing going on now, isn t there? i think the coalition overall is this sd/liberal/green coalition seems like it s a bit frozen in inaction at the moment, finding it difficult to get anything done. again, ithink it difficult to get anything done. again, i think that s probably part of the frustration that vymer is voicing. this loss of confidence just looking at the american economy, how that continues to surge ahead, is interesting. but remember, president biden is by no means certain to win this election in november that he s fighting, and discontent with the economy and discontent with the economy and inflation are two of the biggest hot button topics there as well. there seems to be a very, very common problem one that s notjust unique to germany, despite how frustrated vymer is. germany, despite how frustrated v mer is. ,, ., ~ germany, despite how frustrated v meris. ,, ., ,, vymer is. ok. russ. thank you. good to see vymer is. ok. russ. thank you. good to see you. vymer is. ok. russ. thank you. good to see you. see vymer is. ok. russ. thank you. good to see you. see you - vymer is. ok. russ. thank you. good to see you. see you again| good to see you. see you again soon. the global tech industry is gathering today for london tech week, with microsoft and ibm in attendance amongst investors and entrepreneurs. the event will look at the challenges of balancing ai innovation with regulation, along with the future of security and data. last month, a british firm called wayve raised over a billion dollars in funding to develop tech for self driving cars. that s the biggest known investment in a european ai company. but the most valuable ai firms are based in the us or china. last week, nvidia hit a valuation of $3 trillion. so, are london and the uk becoming more attractive for international ai investment? let s hear from one of the attendees, russ shaw, founder, tech london advocates & global tech advocates. good morning to you, russ. this is a really important event for you, in particular. given the chat a we just had with russ month old about what s happening here in europe and in london, there s so much concern about london, the london stock exchange, and how things are going for cheap. talk us through how, this week, london techis through how, this week, london tech is going to make a change? well, i ve heard that london tech week is this week. this is our 11th year doing it. it really gives a bit of a boost to the overall sector, the overall economy. you mentioned wayve our latest unicorn in terms of funding. we re going to have many companies represented this week. i think we have to step back and look at the uk tech ecosystem overall. we have over 150 tech unicorns by a number of metrics salary, the uk has the third largest tech system in the world. this week, we have nearly 45,000 attendees coming. last year, it was 30,000. we have over 100 being represented this week. there s a significant amount of interest notjust in london tech, but in uk tech overall and really getting behind this next generation of start ups and scale ups that are emerging. but we need to keep them as well, don t we? if we want to see companies really go above and beyond within the uk and across europe. it s all happening in california and in the far east, isn t it?- the far east, isn t it? yeah. we ve seen the far east, isn t it? yeah. we ve seen a the far east, isn t it? yeah. we ve seen a lot the far east, isn t it? yeah. we ve seen a lot of - the far east, isn t it? yeah. we ve seen a lot of listings| the far east, isn t it? yeah. i we ve seen a lot of listings on the nasdaq. we see a lot of growth in asia and asia pacific. but i think we re starting to see some very good growth coming from uk scaling businesses. i knowjulia businesses. i know julia hoggett businesses. i knowjulia hoggett will be one of our speakers this week talking about what the london stock exchange is planning to do to be more welcoming to the tech uniforms that we re seeing. i think there s a whole game plan being introduced in the coming months to talk about how competitive our public markets can be. so we have to look across the spectrum to make sure, from early stage through start up through scale up through the listings, that the uk market and the european markets are as competitive as the us. there s a lot of work to be done, don t get me wrong. but i think the innovation that s going to be showcased this week during london tech week, i hope, gives a bit of a confidence boost that a lot of great creativity, dynamism and innovation is happening right here. ~ , innovation is happening right here. ~ , ., here. 0k. well, it s good to chat to you here. 0k. well, it s good to chat to you again, - here. 0k. well, it s good to chat to you again, russ. - here. 0k. well, it s good to i chat to you again, russ. thank you. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. you re with business today. i m sally bundock. india s prime minister and leader of the bjp party, narenda modi, has been sworn in again for a third term in office this time leading a minority government. that s something he is not used to. let s cross live now to archana shukla in mumbai. archana, how have the indian markets been responding to the latest developments? it s the start of a new trading week. ~ ., ,, , .,, week. well, the markets opened on a muted week. well, the markets opened on a muted scale, week. well, the markets opened on a muted scale, but week. well, the markets opened on a muted scale, but on - week. well, the markets opened on a muted scale, but on the - on a muted scale, but on the positive side. from all the wild swings that we saw last week from record highs post exit polls to tuesday, when prime minister modi s party failed to win a clear majority on its own, the shock element subsided and the markets have actually been on an upward trajectory. investors have come back and market have erased all the losses they made on tuesday almost $400 billion worth of money was lost that day, but all of those losses have been erased. as prime minister modi and his council of ministers took oath yesterday, from the list of the council of ministers, it is evident that they are looking at a policy continuity and a majority of the council of ministers come from his own bjp party. and that is something that experts say markets would be comfortable with, because that shows a sense of continuity. but the wild swings that we saw last week is something that has been of a concern. opposition parties have raised that as a question that, should leaders be making statements, forward looking statements in the market remember, prime minister modi and his home minister, ahmet shah, did say markets would be impacted. thank you. in april, nigerian film star junior pope died when the boat he was travelling in from a film set capsized. an investigation found a number of safety failings, including the fact that the boat driver wasn t certified. hannah gelbart from the bbc s what in the world podcast has been speaking to nollywood actors and producers in lagos about the industry s safety record, and what needs to change. nollywood is booming but it s got a darker side. this is a cultural centre here in lagos, and what you can see around me are some of the remnants of a huge nollywood premiere that took place here last night. it had some of the top names in nigerian cinema. nollywood is one of the biggest film industries in the world it s up industries in the world it s up there with hollywood and india s bollywood. it puts out more than 2,500 films every single year. but recently, there have been some concerns over things like health and safety in its films. in april, top nollywood actor junior pope died in a boat accident. it capsized after hitting a canoe in a river, killing five people.- hitting a canoe in a river, killing five people. send a rescue boat! rescue boat! in this clip, filmed byjunior pope the day before he died, he s clearly concerned about his safety. an investigation found multiple failures the boat wasn t registered, its driver had no licence, and only one passenger was wearing a life jacket. that s because they d brought it onboard themselves. the bbc has obtained a now deleted video clip from the producer s instagram, where she says she was told there were life jackets, and junior pope was offered one, but didn t take it. actress and screenwriter ruth kadyri was a friend of junior pope s, and she was shocked by his passing. it junior pope s, and she was shocked by his passing. it was much more shocked by his passing. it was much more painful shocked by his passing. it was much more painfulfor- shocked by his passing. it was much more painfulfor me, i much more painfulfor me, because i have been in that exact situation before. so i understood the fear, everything he must have felt, at the last minute of his life. i had to shoot an epic movie, so we couldn t use life jackets. i asked everybody on the team if everything was ok. they said yes, the canoe was fine. so i got on the boat. action, they said. they started to paddle. it tumbled into this very big river. my colleague, frankincense, grabbed me cos i can t swim and stuff like that. it s. sighs it s an experience and a day that i will never forget. actor jud dk that i will never forget. actor judy dk says that i will never forget. actor judy dk says the that i will never forget. actor judy dk says the industry i that i will never forget. actor judy dk says the industry is l judy dk says the industry is learning from its mistakes. incidents have been quite low, but right now, it s better. i think the incident was a bit of a wake up call to everybody producers, directors, actors. actors, right now, we know we have to come home. we actors, right now, we know we have to come home. have to come home. we all do crazy things have to come home. we all do crazy things for have to come home. we all do crazy things for the have to come home. we all do crazy things for the love i have to come home. we all do crazy things for the love of i crazy things for the love of this crazy things for the love of thisjoh crazy things for the love of thisjob. coming home at 3am. things thisjob. coming home at 3am. things we thisjob. coming home at 3am. things we would not normally do. things we would not normally do our things we would not normally do. ourtiming for things we would not normally do. our timing for filming things we would not normally do. ourtiming forfilming is do. our timing for filming is insane do. ourtiming forfilming is insane. the industry agents should insane. the industry agents should have proper rest days. i also should have proper rest days. i also think should have proper rest days. i also think individuals should look also think individuals should look after themselves and just fix rest look after themselves and just fix rest days for themselves. as nollywood continues to thrive, the world will now be watching how it treats people who work there. the actors guild of nigeria said in a statement, afterjunior pope s death, that it has set up a committee to look into improving safety guidelines and protocols. it s been a long time coming. but taylor swift has finally brought her record breaking eras tour to the uk. an estimated 800,000 fans will put on their friendship bracelets on will put on their friendship bracelets and get ready to experience what some are calling the concert of a lifetime. but what about the economics behind the music? here s kate moore to break it down for us. taylor swift s eras tour is a culturaljuggernaut. with a run time of 3.5 hours and over 150 shows across five continents, it s generated global headlines and unprecedented demand for tickets. the figures are quite something. it s the highest grossing tour of all time, with over $1 billion in revenue. that sjust time, with over $1 billion in revenue. that s just from the first leg of the tour. some experts believe that it could generate $2 billion by the time it finishes in december. by the end of the run, taylor will have performed to 8 million ticket holders. one concert in seattle generated seismic activity equivalent to that of activity equivalent to that of a 2.3 magnitude earthquake. that s according to a professor at western washington university. the tour has coincided with a huge uptick in the body of taylor swift s work. she s released two new studio albums and re recorded two of her older albums, 1989 and speak now. she s the first billionaire in history where songwriting is the primary source of income. all this is combined to produce what some are calling the era of swiftonomics. i m joined now by a swiftonomics academic, megan wysocki, who s designed and written a course in the discipline at the american university in washington. do tell. . .! do do tell.! do you have a lot of students studying swiftonomics? ., ,, ., swiftonomics? thank you for havin: swiftonomics? thank you for having me swiftonomics? thank you for having me on. swiftonomics? thank you for having me on. yes, - swiftonomics? thank you for having me on. yes, we i swiftonomics? thank you for having me on. yes, we do. l swiftonomics? thank you for l having me on. yes, we do. we currently have about 50 students registered for the course and a waitlist that is just as long. course and a waitlist that is just as long- course and a waitlist that is just as long. and is it - what, three years just as long. and is it - what, three years study? just as long. and is it - what, three years study? what i just as long. and is it - what, three years study? what is i just as long. and is it - what, l three years study? what is it? so it s just a single class, an elective, in the overall major of economics. elective, in the overall ma or of economics.i of economics. ok, so it s a art of of economics. ok, so it s a part of an of economics. ok, so it s a part of an economics i of economics. ok, so it s a l part of an economics degree of economics. ok, so it s a i part of an economics degree or whatever? ok. that makes more sense. sojust whatever? ok. that makes more sense. so just talk us through how she has done this. i mean, she is incredibly wealthy. climbing up the forbes rich list, etc. but it s not so much about her wealth. it s about how she has changed so much within the music industry and what artists gain in terms of their influence and power, isn t it? ., their influence and power, isn t it? . ., ., isn t it? yeah. i mean, we are truly seeing isn t it? yeah. i mean, we are truly seeing an isn t it? yeah. i mean, we are| truly seeing an unprecedented level of market power from taylor swift. i think she s a gifted businesswoman, and she s truly changed so much in the music industry from, you know, streaming services and the portion of proceeds that artists received from their streams, all the way down to ticketmaster and ticket sales. she is truly, you know has truly, you know, cornered the industry and is placing her mark on it. industry and is placing her markon it. ., , ,, mark on it. but also, it s kind of on its mark on it. but also, it s kind of on its head, mark on it. but also, it s kind of on its head, isn t mark on it. but also, it s kind of on its head, isn t it? i of on its head, isn t it? because now, the tour, or the concerts the live events are sort of off the back of huge success, which is driven within the streaming sector, isn t it, really? isn t it, really? yeah. so she s continuously i isn t it, really? yeah. so she s continuously at i isn t it, really? yeah. so| she s continuously at the height of her career. i mean, taylor swift s last tour was, i m going to say, 2017. so we ve now had nine albums since then. she s only continued to grow. really, truly, with these streaming platforms as they ve grown in popularity, grown in user size, grown in market share, we ve seen an unprecedented level of the money and power that she s gaining from these streaming services. , ., . , gaining from these streaming services. , . . services. researchers at itarclavs services. researchers at barclays looked - services. researchers at barclays looked at i services. researchers at barclays looked at how i services. researchers at i barclays looked at how much this would boost the uk economy while she is performing in the uk. she s at various venues in edinburgh at the moment. £997 million boost to the uk economy with swifties, they estimate, forking out £848 on average to see her.?! forking out £848 on average to see her -?! see her.?! yes, truly. it s astonishing, see her.?! yes, truly. it s astonishing, when - see her.?! yes, truly. it s astonishing, when you i see her. . . ?! yes, truly. it s| astonishing, when you think see her.?! yes, truly. it s i astonishing, when you think of how many people can fit into a single venue and how much money that amounts to. that s something we ll be exploring in the course, and really the point that i wanted to explore and make apparent to students is that economics all around us. we can be fans of taylor swift and fans of economics, and how these tours and shows impact everything from your tourism markets, hospitality, these labour industries, the amount of not only concertgoers to these shows, but every single person involved with putting on each and every one of these shows it s monumental. it of these shows - it s monumental.- of these shows - it s monumental. , monumental. it is indeed. and we are out monumental. it is indeed. and we are out of monumental. it is indeed. and we are out of time. monumental. it is indeed. and we are out of time. megan, i we are out of time. megan, thank you forjoining us. really interesting and fascinating. swiftonomics it s a thing! you can go and study swiftonomics. let s show you paris this morning as the sun rises: people across france are waking up people across france are waking up to the news that there ll be a snap parliamentary election just in a few weeks time. the announcement came late yesterday from president emmanuel macron. there is so much more analysis and detail on our website. stay with us here as we keep you up to date on bbc news. hello there. weather for the week ahead is perhaps not the story you want. no significant summer sunshine or warmth, i m afraid. in fact, the story in armagh on sunday really sets the scene just a high of ten degrees. we had cloudy skies with light rain or drizzle with a cool northerly wind as well. now, that rain is sinking its way steadily southwards and it will clear away from eastern england and south east england during monday morning. behind it, this northerly wind and this cooler air source starts to kick in across the country. so a rash of showers, a cold, brisk wind driving those showers in off exposed coasts and drifting their way steadily south across scotland and northern ireland as we go through the morning. here s our cloud and rain still lingering across east yorkshire, lincolnshire first thing showers in off exposed coasts and drifting their way steadily south across scotland and northern ireland as we go through the morning. here s our cloud and rain still lingering across east yorkshire, lincolnshire first thing in the morning, some heavier bursts that will ease away. best of any brighter skies, perhaps across southern england down to the south west. here, showers should be few and further between. but nevertheless, that wind direction still really digging in right across the country. so sunny spells, scattered showers, a brisk northwesterly wind for many, so temperatures just below par really for this time of year, a maximum of 10 15 degrees for most. we might see highs of 17 or 18 if we get some sunshine across south west england and wales. now, as we move out of monday into tuesday, the low pressure drifts off to scandinavia, high pressure builds. it should start to kill off some of the showers out to the west. but with those clearing skies, well, those temperatures will be below path through the night as well, low single figures for some, quite a chilly start to our tuesday morning. hopefully some sunshine around on tuesday. there will continue to be some showers, most frequent ones running down through central and eastern scotland and england. further west, some brighter skies and once again, highs of 17 degrees, but for many, just a maximum of 10 15 once again. moving out of tuesday into wednesday, winds will fall lighter still for a time, but there s another low pushing in and that will bring some wetter weather to close out the end of the working week. it will gradually start to change the wind direction. so, after a drier day on wednesday, it will turn that little bit milder, but also wetter as we head into the weekend. good morning, welcome to breakfast withjon kay and sally nugent. our headlines today. tributes to the much loved television presenter michael mosley after his body is found on a greek island. friends and colleagues describe him as a national treasure. a promise to recruit more gps and improve cancer survival rates. the liberal democrats put the nhs at the heart of their general election manifesto. a surge in support for the hard right in the european elections. french president emmanuel macron responds by calling a snap vote, holiday makers beware. a rise in online customer service scams targeting airline passengers. we ll show you how to spot a fake account to stay safe on social media. in sport, former liverpool and scotland centre back alan hansen is seriously ill. his club announced yesterday their former captain and three time european cup winner is currently in hospital. new laws make it compulsory to get your pet cat microchipped in england or face a fine of up to £500. no sign of some of this week, i m afraid. today part of england and wales starred wet and very windy. no sign of summer this week, i m afraid. it s monday, the 10th ofjune. our main story. tributes have been paid to the bbc broadcaster and author michael mosley, following his death whilst on holiday, at the age of 67. dr mosley disappeared whilst walking in extreme heat on the greek island of symi last wednesday, his body was later recovered
, u know, paying it forward and trying to help people understand their sacrifice. karen davis, the nurse who survived the entrapment in the mega fire in paradise, california, says she lost everything in the inferno. battling the trauma from the flames, she decided to move to las vegas to be closer to her daughter and rebuild her shattered life. once there, karen continued her career in health care. she also decided to become a member of the henderson, nevada, community emergency response team, aiming to help others in future emergencies. a testament to her inner strength and resiliency. for more information on what you can do in a wildfire and how to combat the growing climate crisis, please go to cnn.com/violentearth. i m liev schreiber. thanks for watching. good night. [crowd shouting] [narrator] previously on secrets & spies. [ken adelman] in 1982, the soviet union had something like 33,000 nuclear weapons. [ronald reagan] they are the focus of evil in the modern world. [applause] [oleg gordievsky] the confrontation between west and east was very serious. there was really significant fear that this was going to lead to something extremely, extremely dangerous. [oleg] [crowd cheering] [narrator] this is the unseen story of the cold war. fought not by politicians. but by secret agents. [jack barsky] there was complete misunderstanding on either side. it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust. [narrator] as the soviet union faces off with the west in the early 1980s. two spies play a dangerous game from the shadows. they seek to win the upper hand while the world stands on the brink of nuclear war. these are their stories in their own words. testimony pieced together from interviews over the years. [oleg] after 11 years of secret work, maybe i develop paranoia. [narrator] .and never-before- heard recordings. [aldrich ames, on recording] [narrator] .that reveal the deadly intrigues at the heart of the battle between east and west. [alexander vassiliev] look, this is a war. a secret war. [dramatic music playing] [dramatic music playing] [ken] 83 had been a horrendous year for u.s.-soviet relations. really one of the worst. various things were done which scared the daylights out of the soviet union. you had the military exercise abel archer. [inaudible] the soviet union was unconvinced that if there was a bolt out of the blue, if there was an unprovoked attack by nato, by the united states, against the soviet union, it would be under the guise of a military exercise. we d also just gotten over the shoot-down of the kal airlines. we had gone through the evil empire speech. and so it was a real time of high, high tension. what we ve been concentrating on in the last ten days is the most important relationship in the world, and it makes an enormous difference to the world community when soviet-american relations deteriorate to the lowest point in 20 years, which they have. [tim naftali] when the competition is a nuclear competition, the uncontrollable risks of misunderstanding could have catastrophic consequences. and that s that was that s really the lesson of 1983. the stakes are uncontrollably high. it will be a miracle if there is not one or two major dangerous confrontations, direct confrontations, between the soviet union and the united states. [narrator] on the world stage, president reagan is determined to defeat what he calls the evil empire. but another battle is playing out in the shadows. [jack] for me, becoming a spy for the kgb was ideology. i am jack barsky. that s not the name i was born with. we stole the identity of a jack barsky who passed away at the young age of 11. i spent ten years as an illegal undercover agent for the kgb in the united states. i was 100% convinced that communism was the right thing. that the world eventually would wind up being one happy communist family. [narrator] in moscow, soviet leader yuri andropov continues running operation ryan. it feeds into his paranoia of a nuclear attack from the west. he has over 100 kgb spies overseas whose job is to win the struggle for global supremacy. but not all of them are loyal to the soviet union. top london agent oleg gordievsky has a dangerous secret. [ken] there is a cat-and-mouse relationship between the intelligence agencies. it was white-hot with the emotions on both sides. [narrator] in america, the cia builds a network of their own, recruiting kgb agents willing to turn traitor. and the new boss of this desk is aldrich ames. known to colleagues as rick. [diana worthen] i liked rick. i enjoyed being around him. i used to work for the central intelligence agency. rick ames was my boss there. i was loving it. [laughs] i really liked working on the soviet target. it always felt like important work to me. plus, watching my boss in action with the meetings he was going out to and what he was bringing back. [narrator] he is newly in love after a failed marriage. [diana] while rick was still married to his first wife, he met rosario. this is rick and rosario at the beach in puerto vallarta. they were in love. in a way, he was very good for her and she was very good for him. [narrator] ames s job is to protect the cia s growing portfolio of soviet agents. [tim] a very important part of the mosaic of information about the soviet menace comes from spies, human agents, each of whom is taking an enormous risk. and those spies are sending their information, ultimately, via aldrich ames. his job is to be sure that the information that these agents provide in the field is in a useful form for policymakers in washington. but he s also in a position to shape how washington uses this material. through this man goes the most important human intelligence that the united states is collecting in the soviet union on the soviet menace. through this one man. so he knows their names, and, of course, he s supposed to keep those names secret so that they don t die. [ominous music playing] [narrator] in london, one soviet double agent is more valuable than all the american assets. [narrator] the british source, oleg gordievsky, is third in command at the kgb london station. [narrator] gordievsky s intelligence revealed that the west s military exercise, able archer, provoked the soviets to seriously dangerous levels. [bianna golodryga] the security was heightened around the perimeters of the nato-u.s. exercises. russia interpreted that as not just another exercise, but perhaps posturing from the united states and nato to actually deploy a nuclear weapon. [helicopter blades beating] [narrator] yuri andropov, the leader of the soviet union, is so paranoid that one misstep could take the world to the brink of nuclear war. this misinterpretation about what the west s intentions were was something to be worried about. [narrator] and president reagan has no idea. [bianna] then the british decided it was time to start telling washington a little bit about who their new spy was, and some of the information that he was feeding them. in particular, that russia was indeed alarmed and russia was fearful. [narrator] but these insights come just as americans watch a nightmare scenario unfold onscreen. [laughing] [man] have a good weekend. [glass shatters] [ken] in late november 1983, abc put on a movie special called the day after. it was a movie of a town in kansas getting blown up by nuclear weapons. it s very powerful. president reagan watched it at, i believe, at camp david, with nancy. and he told us that he was kind of devastated by the whole thing. it was watched by over 100 million americans. and it was the rage. ronald reagan doesn t want to be seen as someone who brought the world close to nuclear brink. so he wants to be the peace-lover president. and he was flopping around wondering what to do about it all. [narrator] shocked by the reality of nuclear war, reagan offers his first olive branch to andropov. i believe that 1984 finds the united states in the strongest position in years to establish a constructive and realistic working relationship with the soviet union. just suppose with me for a moment that an ivan and an anya could find themselves, say, in a waiting room, or sharing a shelter from the rain or a storm with a jim and sally. as they went their separate ways, maybe anya would be saying to ivan, wasn t she nice? she also teaches music. jim would be telling sally what ivan did or didn t like about his boss. they might even have decided they were all going to get together for dinner some evening soon. people want to raise their children in a world without fear and without war. a nuclear conflict could well be mankind s last. reagan s big point was not the day after. the big point was the day before, and let s try the day before to make sure that the day after never happens. if the soviet government wants peace, then there will be peace. let us begin now. thank you. [applause] [narrator] but before any new strategy gets underway. a major tragedy rocks moscow. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [reporter] it is after midnight in moscow. the soviet flag, the hammer and sickle, has been lowered to half-staff over the kremlin. yuri andropov, the soviet president, dead at 69. [ominous music playing] [nina khrushcheva] people knew that he had kidney problems. everybody knew he was sick. people were comparing his skin color whether greenish, or whether bluish, or whatever. so it wasn t really a surprise that he was dying. but at the same time, because of tensions with the united states, with the west, there was uncertainty. it turns out that yuri andropov had much more than a bad cold for the past six months. his funeral will be in moscow tuesday, and although a number of prominent american politicians urge president reagan to attend, he will not. [narrator] reagan s olive branch does not extend to a trip to the ussr. instead, he sends vice president george hw bush. andropov s death has left many russians feeling uneasy. they have now lost two presidents in less than a year-and-a-half, and that s bound to unnerve a people who crave security. [ominous music playing] [narrator] during this critical moment, british prime minister margaret thatcher is one step ahead of reagan. [lord robin butler] the intelligence reports from oleg gordievsky were very important because you are, as it were, seeing behind the curtain. margaret thatcher began to feel that there might be an opportunity for her to open a relationship with the soviet union. which would also be a platform on which united states could build. [narrator] thatcher will cross the iron curtain and attend andropov s funeral. her first visit as the leader of the british state. gordievsky s insight into the soviet leadership s mindset is critical. [woman] yes, hello, it s the duty clerk here. we have an amendment to make to the prime minister s travel arrangements for tomorrow. [narrator] gordievsky s briefings advise her to be formal but friendly, and soften her normally tough image. the soviets don t react well to shows of strength. on a human level, i think this briefing was extremely important. it s body language. it s style. it s smiling at the right moments, but not smiling at the wrong moments. it s how you appear. [reporter] [dramatic music playing] [narrator] the funeral provides an opportunity for margaret thatcher to meet the new head of the ussr. [reporter 1] the new leader of the soviet union is 72-year-old konstantin chernenko. [reporter 2] mr. chernenko had moved up to the graveside for the final salute. he s known to have had health problems of his own. moscow rumors have spoken of pneumonia, but say he s recovered. for a brief moment, he seemed to have difficulty raising his hand. now, more than ever, he ll need his strength if he s to consolidate his power. [reporter 3] the prime minister got a few minutes with the new leader and the foreign minister, andrei gromyko, immediately after the ceremony. she behaved in a very dignified way, but also in a. in a charming way. we know from our intelligence source that her behavior made a very favorable impression on the russians at that moment. we were very courteously received, and i very much valued the opportunity of half-an-hour s talk with mr. chernenko this evening. it s in the interest of the peoples on both sides of the political divide to live in peace and security. let s start on that basis and try to build up. [narrator] thatcher seizes the opportunity to put britain at the center of a new kind of relationship. a relationship that could shift the balance in the cold war. [news anchor] the new leader of the soviet union, konstantin ustinovich chernenko, immediately dispelled any suggestion that he might take a softer line with the west. [nina] for most of us, this kind of exhibition of state power was so tiresome. another old guy died, and now we re gonna have another old guy ruling over us. well, good for them. congratulations. it was a dying joke. it was an absolutely ossified system. [narrator] ronald reagan remains remarkably quiet following his ivan and anya speech. he s reluctant to invest in a leader who might not last long. [ken] ronald reagan is dying to negotiate with any soviet, but he says, they keep dying on me. they keep dying on me. he wants to have a real summit, and that chernenko was about 105 years old at that time, and drooling, and had trouble walking into the room by himself. [narrator] chernenko is so frail that there s no guarantee he ll rule for long. both sides of the iron curtain begin to look to the future. gordievsky picks up on rumors of a new young contender. mikhail gorbachev has risen quickly, from secretary of agriculture to the second in command in the politburo, a part of the country s ruling elite. [speaking russian] [in english] if it is self-evident that chernenko cannot survive very long, then the quicker we start having real contact with mikhail gorbachev, the better. [narrator] reagan is unaware about the new rising star of soviet politics. president reagan was very hawkish and had been very vocal about his views on communism and needing to break it down. not necessarily viewing the soviet union as a partner, but as somebody who the united states really needed to one-up in terms of this overriding issue of democracy versus communism. [narrator] but thatcher has moved beyond this and sees a bigger picture, thanks to gordievsky s intel. this is her opportunity to take control and steer the cold war away from its stalemate. [sir malcolm rifkind] a decision was taken to see if we could persuade gorbachev to come to the united kingdom. [narrator] they wait with bated breath to see if their offer will be accepted. [ominous music playing] [narrator] in 1984, the political relationship between east and west is as fractious and dangerous as ever. the spies continue their cat-and-mouse game to gain the upper hand. i lived in the united states with an established identity as an american. but i was actually spying for the kgb. the tensions were very, very high. the russians were trying to spy on us and recruit our people. we were spying on them and trying to recruit their people. oh, that s me. [jim laughs] i worked the soviet target. kgb, mostly. they were interested in me living behind enemy lines as an american. somebody who, if necessary, could do a lot of damage. what i loved most about the job, i think, was the, um. was the kind of the chessboard game with the russians. [jack] our goal was to weaken the enemy and eventually, you know, help the quote, unquote, working class, the suppressed, to rise up and build another communist nation. [narrator] the handling of the kgb double agents is coordinated by the fbi and cia working together. [jim] rick ames was responsible for monitoring every soviet case. all the important agent cases sort of had to pass by his desk and get his seal of approval. for him, it was probably quite an exciting time. is this motorin and martinov? they were both kgb officers. martinov was a joint effort between the bureau and us. sergei motorin was a line pr officer in washington, d.c., who we recruited. hmm! this guy i know very well. this is major general dmitri polyakov. i worked with him quite a while myself. [narrator] cia agent aldrich ames is in a powerful position. he has 20 soviet double agents all under his protection. [diana] we were responsible for these assets. it s a job i really took seriously. their lives were at stake, and they knew that risk when they were. had joined up to sign. [narrator] but ames is beginning to feel frustrated, and his endless daily commute gives him time to think. he d write these studies. everybody would read them and say, oh, that s really great work, rick. and then that would be the end of it, you know? they didn t really send it anywhere. [narrator] ames is feeling undervalued. the white house seems much more reliant on mysterious briefings from london. [starts engine] [ken] the intelligence from the cia was very good on military technologies. it was just not good at the main thing we needed. what is going to happen? you re asking to read the mind of somebody and to understand human motivations. that s tougher than what is happening or what has happened. [narrator] the intel the brits receive from gordievsky gives them just that. and there are frustrations for ames at home too. [diana] he was also having a hard time, in his mind, trying to figure out how to get the divorce from his first wife. and how much that was gonna cost him. [honking horn] [jim] he gave rosario, i think, an exaggerated sense of both how much money he had and his lifestyle. i think he exaggerated that to her. his old car was always breaking down. everybody talked about his old junky cars. why he didn t buy a new one? he probably couldn t afford one. [tim] he is leading a banal, middle-class life. with the important distinction that he has access to some of the top secrets of the united states. he feels that people don t recognize his importance. they have underestimated aldrich ames. [ominous music playing] [narrator] oleg gordievsky has proven so valuable, the british risk a bold move. they revoke the head of the station, arkady guk s diplomatic status. it forces guk out of london and back to moscow. when you do that, you open up the possibility that moscow will start asking about why the british are doing what they re doing. and moscow, which was already conspiratorially minded and paranoiac, might start doubting the loyalty of the people who were gonna benefit from the fact that resident guk had just been sent home. so that was a risk that they took. [narrator] it leaves an enticing opening. [sir david omand] with guk out of the way, mi6 could plan for gordievsky to step up a notch. could he become the actual head of the kgb residency in london? it would give him much better access to intelligence operations being run from london. [alexander] after arkady guk, the number two, it was comrade nikitenko, who was the head of the counterintelligence line in the station. of course there was a rivalry. but espionage is a teamwork, so you need a good member of a team. [sir david] mi6 have to be extremely careful. he s got to show that he s really on top of the job, and that he is the right person to lead the kgb effort in the united kingdom, yet not be so good and so provoking that jealousies and suspicions will come about. [narrator] mi6 might want gordievsky in charge, but their puppeteering can t be discovered. their strategy is a bold gesture with a potential double payoff. impress oleg s kgb bosses while making a strategic political move. [sir malcolm] with gordievsky s help, we invited gorbachev to come to the united kingdom. we waited a rather long time. then, suddenly, we got an answer. saying, i d like to come in the next couple of months, and i d like to bring raisa, my wife, with me. then we had to go into overdrive. [narrator] it s a momentous event with a lot at stake. gordievsky steps up and helps both sides to prepare. gordievsky is shown a copy of the foreign secretary geoffrey howe s brief, so he knows exactly how number 10 is gearing up. [sir malcolm] how do you get across the reality of what your actual position is? sometimes, the best thing you can do with intelligence is share it with your adversary. he s then able to, in his own words, tell gorbachev, this is what you must expect. these are the issues, for example, human rights, that the prime minister is going to raise with you. [narrator] gordievsky shares information on arms control, trade and economics, along with personal notes on thatcher. [baroness meta ramsay] oleg is telling the kgb what the attitude towards gorbachev would be, and what sort of things would go down well with mrs. thatcher, and what wouldn t. oleg was making sure that the right messages went in both directions. [sir david] the reaction of gorbachev reading his briefs was fed back to gordievsky. there were ticks in the margin. passages were underlined. it s very rare in any intelligence operation to have real-time feedback on whether you re actually having the effect that you hope to have. having someone in london who was in on the political line could produce world historically important information. that s why he was an unusually important spy. he was at the right place at the right time. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! [dramatic music playing] [reporter] a decade after gromyko and 28 years since bulganin and khrushchev mr. gorbachev arrived to do a little ice-breaking. [camera shutters click] [sir malcolm] i was at chequers when he arrived with raisa, his wife. [camera shutters clicking] [reporter] it was an unusual affair. the man who arrived was good-humored, informal, and with a taste for well-cut suits. gorbachev seemed a new kind of russian. big smile on his face, as if he s meeting an old chum. [reporter] his wife, raisa, showed not every soviet woman was a 23-stone babushka. thatcher s deciding to be very open and very. she wasn t stiff at all. [indistinct chattering] [laughter] the photograph is taken of us all standing on the steps and so forth. now, have you got enough? -[photographer] thank you. -a handshake. madam, could we just turn. could you. [sir malcolm] margaret thatcher, in her usual taking control fashion, said, no, no, i think we have to have one shaking hands. and you ll stand on the end. -all right. -[all laugh] yes, now, i think. [robin] so at this moment, gordievsky s role was very important, actually, in creating a bridge between the british and the russians. [sir malcolm] and then the first thing to happen is lunch. she hogged him to herself for the whole luncheon. he behaved, if i can put it this way, he wouldn t have liked this, but he behaved like a western politician. [dramatic music playing] [thatcher] i like mr. gorbachev. we can do business together. we both believe in our own political systems. he firmly believes in his, i firmly believe in mine. we re never going to change one another. so that is not in doubt. but we should both do everything we can to see that war never starts again. [bianna] a lot of the tension going into these meetings, the agenda that was set, the topics that each side was going to bring up and discuss, was known ahead of time. in large part thanks to the messages that were received and delivered by oleg gordievsky. [narrator] the visit is a success. gorbachev and thatcher find common ground. thatcher immediately flies out to make the case to reagan. [camera shutters click] [susan eisenhower] imagine, in 1983 ronald reagan said that the soviet union was an evil empire. and then margaret thatcher says to mikhail gorbachev this is a man she can do business with. what an extraordinary shift. and, of course, ronald reagan was not only an admirer and a friend of margaret thatcher, but he really respected her viewpoint on this. and she gave him some political cover to begin to look at the changes that were underway in the soviet union and take them more seriously. [narrator] while chernenko is leader, full dialogue with the soviets remains a long way off. her approval of gorbachev legitimizes reagan s desire to approach the soviet leadership himself. and he is intrigued by her very well-informed insights. but the cia wants to know exactly who is keeping the british one step ahead. [bianna] the cia had this we are holier than thou position, and thus have the right to have access to all of the information that we would like. and so they were itching to find out, who is this mystery spy? [narrator] ames and his colleagues scour the list of soviet diplomats in london who had worked in denmark. [narrator] ames now knows the double agent who s been swaying thatcher and reagan s thinking. unbeknownst to oleg, there was a growing list of people in the cia who were aware of him, his background, what he was doing, and his exact identity. [narrator] and if the cia can work out who the mole is, how long until the kgb finds out? the more people who know the name of a source, the more imperiled the source becomes. if his secret is betrayed to the kgb, it s a bullet to the back of the head. the risk for gordievsky is death.
shell. powering progress. defensive democracy. president biden is about an hour from landing in philadelphia tonight after playing paying a march to fallen world war i heroes at a cemetery in france. congressman jerry conley of the house foreign affairs committee joins me to discuss the study in contrast with implications for global stability. inside the biden campaign with the re-election effort in full swing in the first presidential debate a few weeks away, adrian elrod, campaign senior adviser and spokesperson is here to talk about the biden-harris game plan ahead. former congressman joe walsh, former congressman donna edwards and andrew of punch bowl news will weigh in on everything from donald trump s interview tomorrow to notable comments on the and other sunday shows and you know we are going to discuss this disparaging comment from rudy giuliani about fulton county d.a. fani willis. i have two prosecutors. i am jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. president biden is flying back from france at this hour after a five-day trip highlighting america s fight for freedom and democracy abroad . biden began his visit with a d speech at the site of the day honoring the soldiers who stormed the beaches of normandy, and defeated fascism. earlier today, the president stopped by the world war i cemetery outside paris where he praised the nato alliance that has secured peace for the past eight decades. mr. president, what do you hope americans take away? the knowledge that the best way to avoid these kinds of battles in the future is to stay strong with our allies. do not break. do not break. 80 years of relative peace, especially in europe, is a historical admiration. we have been able to maintain this piece because of institutions like nato, created with and sustained by leadership in the united states and presidents from both parties. we cannot take this peace and world order for granted. biden s remarks were also a clear rebuke to donald trump and the selfishness he is shown on the world stage. in 2018, trump infamously refused to enter the cemetery where biden spoke today. the atlantic reportedend quote, trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain and because he did not believe it important to honor american war dead. trump said, why should i go to that cemetery? it s filled with losers. former white house chief of staff john kelly, a retired four-star marine general, also confirmed that conversation to cnn, but trump denies it ever happened, calling the story quote, made up, at a rally in las vegas today. he also complimented hungarian strongman victor or bond and shared his own dark vision of the world order. the world is going to look up to us with respect. they re not going to be laughing at us. they right now are laughing at us. your closer right now to world war iii than you ve ever been in this is no longer army tanks going back and forth. these are nuclear weapons the likes of which, and the power of which has never ever been seen before. trumps fear mongering about nuclear war comes less than 24 hours before he will be sitting down with a probation officer in new york. nbc news has the reporting that trump will be interviewed tomorrow as part of the presentencing requirements for his criminal conviction. as biden prepares for g-7 summit in italy this week, trump will be focused on securing his own freedom because as dana milbank writes in the washington post today, trump is serving the highest cause he knows, himself. joining me now is democratic congressman jerry connolly of virginia, member of the house foreign affairs committee and senior member of the house oversight committee. as always, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. let s start with breaking news out of israel for a key rival of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, opposition leader benny gantz, just resigned from israel s war cabinet. what could this mean for cease- fire negotiations? i hope it puts more pressure on netanyahu to agree to his own government s proposal for a cease-fire agreement that president biden has been championing. i think the loss of gantz really fractures unity in israel at a time when it desperately needs it but i do think and hope it puts political pressure on netanyahu to end the fighting and the killing, and come to an agreement so hostages can be released and civilians can try to restore their lives. hundreds of palestinians were killed in the raid that rescued was four israeli hostages yesterday. , and that impact negotiations? the initial response in israel is celebration at the release of four hostages who have been there for eight months . that is to be celebrated, but the loss of life incurred in doing that is something that i think is horrifying, and i would hope the israeli military and the israeli government take a moment of reflection about the high cost of their operations generally in gaza. one more question on israel before we turn to domestic issues. there is also talk of opening up another front in the north to deal with hezbollah in lebanon. would that be a wise thing for israel to do? i am not a military adviser but i think israel has its hands full right now with the operations in gaza and the occupation of the west bank to open up really a third front on the lebanese border with hezbollah, i think, would really tax the israeli military in ways that go back to rivaling the war of 1973, and i hope it can be avoided. let s turn our attention stateside. mckay [ inaudible ] reports about how terrified europe is of a second trump presidency reading quote, one word came up again and again when i asked european officials about the stakes of the election. existential. but here s what senator tom cotton had to say about ending the current war on european soil in ukraine. the way to have peace in europe and for that matter, peace and stability around the world is to remove joe biden from the white house on election day this year and return donald trump. that is how we will get back to peace and stability. congressman, why shouldn t europeans be afraid with comments like that? they should be and they are. i ve been very involved in the legislative arm of nato for the last decade plus, and i can tell you i have never seen the europeans as anxious about american politics as they are right now. everything is at stake and as you indicated, nato, ironically, house work. it s kept the peace for most of 80 years. it is the one thing putin respects. he will not cross the nato border because of article five it says an attack on one his attack on all of us and we mean it. he has respected that. he has respected nothing else in this war but that so to call into question the viability on the utility and the efficacy of nato when it is working and we have a war going on is really reckless, and i don t think any european is going to turn to tom cotton for advice as we go forward. we should point out that article five is been invoked only once in nato s history, and that was to protect the united states after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. meanwhile, far right parties have made significant gains in elections today so much so that french president macron announced today that he would dissolve the nation s parliament and call for snap elections and this is significant because his current term does not end until 2027. are the far right forces gaining record support in europe as much a threat as a trump 2.0 in washington? i think there is a lot of variety among what is generically called the right in europe. the right in italy is very different than the right in germany and austria and on and on. obviously it is alarming to see this kind of far right parties make gains in european elections. european elections sometimes are a second vote for europeans, so they might not vote for the people who govern their own country but it is kind of a free vote, a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the status quo. obviously it reflects deep concern about the immigration issue in europe and we have to take note of that and respect that as a potent issue going forward. potent issue in europe, but does that also mean americans should look at what is happening in europe, american officials look at what is happening in europe and taking? yes. we can t afford to ignore what s happening in europe. that does not necessarily mean exactly that will happen here but it does not mean nothing. it is resonating with voters and we ve got to take cognizance of that. jerry connolly, member of the house foreign affairs committee and senior member of the house oversight committee, thanks for coming to the sunday show. joining me now, barbara walter, professor of relations at the university of california, san diego, she is the author of how civil wars started how to stop them. thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. so, is it me or does it feel to you that trumps rhetoric of revenge and vengeance has kicked into a whole new gear, and how significant is it that his high-ranking followers are openly calling for the prosecution of trumps so-called enemies? well, the evidence is very clear. if you go back and listen to tapes and watch videos of trump in 2016, he is a very different person today and what he is saying is different than in 2016. he is much more aggressive. he is using much more negative, hate-filled, threatening language. it is like he is a bully on steroids today whereas he was not in 2016, and one of the things we also know from lots of research is that rhetoric matters, especially violent rhetoric, that if you have leaders who begin to normalize the idea that violence is legitimate, that their supporters believe it and some of them actually follow through with it, so it s not agnostic. it s not a game. this is not something that has no repercussions. if you have somebody like trump , who so many people idolize and his so many people believe is their hero and who is going to save them and he s telling them that the only way to save america is through violence, the only way that they won t be in danger is if they take back their country, they are going to believe him. the washington post has a front-page story about the former trump director who wrote in a 2022 essay quote, we are living in a post-constitutional time. according to the time, that quote has helped craft proposals for donald trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, sees more control over the justice department and assert the power to withhold congressional appropriations and that is just on trump s first day back in office. barbara, why should americans be very concerned about this? again, history tells us a lot. it used to be that the way autocrats came to power in democracies was through military coups. they got the military to help them, but that is not the case in the 21st century. today, the most likely way an autocrat can take control of democracy is through essentially legal means. they play the democratic game. they get elected. they build a base. they tell people that they are going to save them from all these bad things that could happen to them. they convince them that democracy maybe isn t the best system. it s not efficient, not effective, not serving them, then they slowly withdraw the guardrails of democracy in one of the reasons why trump is so in awe of victor orban, the leader of hungary, is that he is really the very first 21st- century leader to do this, and he did it masterfully. it is almost as if he wrote the book on it, and trump has met with him a number of times, and i suspect that one of the things they are talking about is how we can do this in the united states, and we know that organizations like the heritage foundation have crafted very lengthy manuals for how the republican party can do this in 2024 if trump wins. right, and it s called project 25 out of the heritage foundation. barbara, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. coming up, the view from inside president biden s re- election campaign. adrian elrod, senior adviser and spokesperson for the biden- harris campaign joins me in studio to talk about their strategy on contentious issues like border security, the economy and the war in gaza. plus, how drag performers are helping lead the charge on attacks against the lgbtq+ community. you are watching the sunday show on msnbc. you are watching show on msnbc. if you re living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go unscripted. good to go on a whim. with cabenuva, there s no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it s two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don t receive cabenuva if you re allergic to its ingredients, or if you re taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue. and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60%. we re moving forward with indycar. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. president biden is due to philadelphia in the next hour after his visit to france. president biden s return home means a return to the campaign trail and the issues top of mind for voters this november, from the economy to immigration to the humanitarian crisis in gaza and then there is the conundrum that is his opponent, donald trump. joining me now, adrian elrod, senior spokesperson for the biden-harris campaign. welcome to the sunday show. the campaign has launched a new ad that focuses on defending american democracy. joe biden has made defending our basic freedoms the cause of his presidency, and he is running for re-election to finish the job to protect the freedom for women to make their own health care decisions, the freedom for our children to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to vote and have your vote counted. under joe biden, the sun will not set on this flight. american democracy will not break. oh adrian, this message worked really well during the 2022 midterms. do you expect it to have the same impact in november when it s a presidential election year? yes, i think so. part of what we wanted to emphasize in that ad is under president biden, you have the freedom to live under democracy. you have the freedom to make your own economic decisions. before trump put three pro-life supreme court justices on the court we women have the freedom to make our own reproductive health decisions. that freedom was taken away solely because of donald trump s a part of what that is doing is connecting the dots. we currently have the freedom to live under a democracy but if donald trump steps back into the white house, democracy will be at risk and when you saw president biden, who had an incredible week overseas honoring our following fallen and the 80th anniversary of d-day, how american allies in america fought to protect democracy across the world is a smart risk now than it ever was. now weaving all of these things together, talking about the freedoms we have in the president biden and the freedoms we won t have if trump wins the election, that is core to this campaign, and you will continue to hear that message throughout the next five months. while the president was in france yesterday, thousands of palestinian protesters rallied outside the white house urging the president to halt military aid to israel. how are these protests waiting on the campaign? first of all president biden, unlike former president trump, supports freedom of speech and expression. these protesters are exercising their right. that being said, we understand it the challenge. president biden is certainly fighting for every vote. he s not taking anything for granted but this is the freedom people have. they have the right to protest. they have the right to speak their mind. is not going to take anything for granted and it s important to keep in mind during these challenging times on the foreign policy front, on the global front, can you imagine having donald trump back in the white house trying to manage all this? president biden is a seasoned foreign-policy pro-who served as the chair on the senate foreign relations committee for a long time. he has these relationships with world leaders that go deep so we are going to be reinforcing the fact that is an important attribute the president has. at the same time we are working hard for every single vote. one thing that is going to make getting every vote a little problematic is the president s new executive action on the border which temporarily halts asylum requests once the average number of daily encounters tops 2500 at points of entry and it is drawing criticism from all quarters on both sides of the aisle. are you afraid of alienating progressive voters who argue that this policy is too harsh? no, we are not because here is the bottom line. republicans in congress did not act because their supreme leader donald trump said you can t. we will not pass the most historic bipartisan bill that has come forward in congress for 10 years because they did not want joe biden to have a win. they did not want him to have a political wins a president biden has to use every lover he can in the white house to do something about the border. americans know, democrats and republicans understand that there is a crisis of the border and asked to get solved but if congress is not going to act, if republicans in congress are going to block products progress on this than president biden is going to use every level at his disposal to try to make some change so this was an important executive action last week. it is something that has to take place and it is unfortunate that congress won t act. hopefully they will. there is still time to come to the table. that s where we are. okay, great economic news for the country, particularly the president. unemployment remains below 4%, but what guidance importers biden supporters are complaining about is that they are not hearing some of these things. reporter: you re not the first person who told me that the president is not necessarily communicating his accomplishments. why do you think he s not doing that? he needs to do better at basically putting it in people s faces. i accomplished this. i did this and the benefits you have now or because of me and my administration. that needs to be clear because i don t think many people do know what he has actually gotten done. so the question is this. is it that you re not communicating, or you are not breaking through when you do communicate, and if it is the latter, how are you going to breakthrough? she just did a really great job. i don t have to tell you this. it is really hard to breakthrough in the cycle. that s why we are using surrogates and taking our message to the voters. we have an aggressive digital strategy working with surrogates to get that message out but at the same time, everything president biden has accomplished, record gdp growth, record unemployment, the 15 million jobs he s created under his presidency, we understand americans are still hurting. prices are still too high which is why he is really making the case that in a second term is going to continue to work hard to lower prices and drug cost unlike donald trump, who has no economic plan. the first presidential debate is in three weeks, june 27th. i m not convinced trump is going to show up. are you already planning for that possibility? we are showing up. i can t speak for what he s going to do but president biden is showing up and looking forward to this conversation. he has a lot of things to talk to donald trump about and is looking forward to having a major platform to tell the american people. thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. coming up, donald trump s first official rally since his criminal conviction just one day before his first meeting with a new york probation officer. my panel is studio will weigh in on that and more, next on the sunday show. the sunday sho. and while we re still miles from the lake, i m gonna launch this boat right here. see ya. 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[traffic noises] so get allstate, save money on auto insurance and be protected from mayhem. yeah, like me. so this is pickleball? it s basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e trade from morgan stanley, we re ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i d rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that s a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one s free. it s time to get away and cash in at cache creek casino resort. thanks for coming to our clinic, to rock and to roll. to go all out or go all in with four stars and rising stars. northern california s premier casino resort is the perfect place to do as much. or as little as you want. make your getaway now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. tomorrow, another dubious first for donald trump. he is scheduled for a new york interview with a probation officer, required as part of trump s presentencing report after being found guilty on all 34 counts in his manhattan criminal trial. today, trump was in las vegas for his first official rally since his conviction, and once again, the perpetually aggrieved queens born builder played the victim and projectionist as he falsely accuse the biden administration of doing things we all know he is itching to do if he gets another chance in the white house. the only way he can get elected is to cheat but this time they are using weaponization of department of justice going to see the local d.a.s, going to see the attorney general s to cheat. joining me now, former republican congressman joe walsh of illinois, now an independent, and director of the social contract. former congresswoman donna edwards of maryland and senior congressional reporter at punch bowl. thank you all very much for coming back to the sunday show. okay, i m going to leave you out of this right now, amber. joe and donna, your reaction to donald trump saying the only way he can get elected this to cheat, about president biden. i love to be with you on the set in on this show and we have fun. jonathan, this is scary and dangerous and i don t want to smile and laugh about it. there was an insurrection 3 1/2 years ago that he incited, and he s doing the same thing this year. he is lying to his voters and he wants there to be violence again if he loses. we can t normalize this. donna, i m assuming you agree. looks, i totally agree with what joe has said in the scary part about this is that it is not only donald trump but all his surrogates who are echoing the same crying about the election and i think while it would be fun to laugh and smile about this, this is really serious and could lead to real violence yet again. i want to show what congresswoman elise stefanik had to say on fox news. she said the trial was rigged and is shredding our democracy yada yada yada. this is shredding our democracy. the mainstream media and democrats accuse the right but it is really democrats who are attacking our democracy and the american people know that this was rigged from the start and it is an affront to us. former president trump is correct that the real verdict will be rendered this november on election day when former president trump wins overwhelmingly. andrew, i play that because everyone is talking about four men who are potentially on donald trump s shortlist but to my mind, who we just saw, that, to my mind, so i think donald trump is going to pick. does that hold any water in what you re hearing around the capital? for sure. you see many of these potential running mates for donald trump going on tv, rushing to defend him and his various cases and advancing some of the same arguments. i agree that she is probably a top contender. on capitol hill the conversation usually centers around people like senator tim scott or jd vance. some conversations involve senator marco rubio, as well. there is the question of him having florida residency and former president trump having florida residency in this arcane role for the top of the ticket in the vice presidential nominee cannot be from the same state technically so how do you address that issue constitutionally but he is in the conversation. elise stefanik is out there doing this because she wants to be trump s vice presidential nominee. she is someone who came up in the republican party is someone viewed as a moderate, someone who will change the face of the party. she started this organization, winning for women, a republican women s group supporting candidates across the country that were more moderate, more centrist talking about issues that are more appealing to suburban women voters, for example, that republicans have lost out on in the last few elections and you see the transformation in real-time here. yes, huge transformation. you invoke the name of another person auditioning for terms vpn that is senator tim scott. listen to what he claims would happen if donald trump wins re- election. protecting law and justice is job one for president trump. he will not target his political opponents. he were fire merrick garland and restore confidence in the department of justice. for real, he will not target his political opponents? this week all he said was oh you know, i might have to get revenge. come on. every time he speaks i don t recognize who he is but to end this point, i don t know who the vp pick is going to be but it will be somebody who is going to have to lie about the election and say that donald trump is a victim right now who will weaponize the justice department. that s the job requirement. tim scott is just like all these republican vp wannabes, and they are going down to the very bottom to defend donald trump to say that he is saying things that he doesn t say. donald trump himself has said how he s going to weaponize the department of justice. we are not making that up. those are his own words so i think these republicans are trying to clean up donald trump s act but it is really not working. i want to squeeze in one more potential vp nominee. this is congressman byron donalds at the town hall event. this is a change my mind, not element seven, element six. watch this. during jim crow, more black people were not just conservative but more black people voted conservatively. the congressman went on with reverend sharpton yesterday and they got into, you know, shouting match with byron donalds saying i didn t say that i m not going to sit here and have you lie. we just saw that. why can you byron donalds post a video of himself saying that during jim crow over 4000 fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters were lynched. during jim crow, people s rights were taken away from them. during jim crow, black families were terrorized across the south. byron donalds, i don t know what vision what version of america he is living but it is not a version many of our parents and grandparents would recognize. i want to give a shout out to my colleagues who did a masterful job interviewing him and pointing out all those things. my sound off panel is going to stay with us. don t go anywhere. we are going to discuss rudy giuliani s crazy comment about fani willis. with bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. bounce, it s the sheet. 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[music playing] back with me, former congressman joe walsh, former congressman donna edwards and andrew punch bowl. i teased this at the top of the show. listen to this from rudy giuliani. then i ve got two prosecutors. fanny the how now, fani is not fawn ee. really what giuliani did there is just so repugnant. it is. it is the constant dehumanizing of black women i think black women see that. i think all women see that for what it is. it s really disgusting. i would say it s beneath rudy giuliani but apparently nothing is beneath him. i come from the right. i come from right-wing media. i engaged in staff i would love to take back. it is the cruelty. just call it for what it is. the cruelty cells right now, sadly, with the republican party base. that is just ugly, and will quickly on this, what comes to my mind, why don t we see elected officials in the capital running out and condemning that language or language of retribution or anything, or is it they don t say anything because the cruelty is the point. this is what trump wants and this is what we are getting. members of congress, particularly republicans in the senate, i think, are more afraid of the base than they ever have been before. they are afraid to criticize remarks like this. they are afraid to do anything that would upset the people who got them into office even though they themselves don t personally agree with that type of rhetoric, with that sort of using those words, so it is that fear to condemn someone who is so, you know, he loves by the base of the party and the people who sent them to congress, and that is sort of the push and pull we are seeing right now in the republican party more one direction than the other but you have people like mitt romney not running for re-election. he calls the stuff out readily but he is an outcast in the republican party, almost like he was never the 2012 republican nominee for president. he is an outcast. he s leaving the senate. there are few, if any, left of his breed of republican after the election. right well, i mean lindsay graham used to be that breed but he is totally transformed. tomorrow is a big day for former president trump. he has his meeting with a probation officer. real quickly, let s play the former corrections commissioner marty horn, of new york city, how he described it. we use the term. we call it, is this individual amenable to supervision. that means is he or she receptive to accepting the restrictions that are placed upon them, in the event they are placed on probation. will they comply with the rules, or are they people who are likely to violate the rules? all right. you already know what i m going to ask. none of this applies to trump. absolutely no remorse. he is not following the rules. my great fear is, though, he s going to be sentenced to prison and become even a bigger martyr than he is now. i spent a lot of time in criminal court reading pre- sentence reports. it s hard to imagine that trump is going to do anything that really mitigates in front of the judge for sentencing and i think a probation officer is going to have to conclude that this is a man who will not abide by the rules of probation that are set for him. well i mean, he doesn t have to go to jail. can t they put him under house arrest? there are a lot of options but it still means he will be, on some level, on probation and the question is, is he going to comply with those rules and the answer is no. and he wanted and he will scream he s a victim. let s keep in mind, rules on travel and things, you have to get permission to leave but also, he can associate with anyone who has a criminal record. his entourage is lousy with convicted criminals. s entourage, his campaign operation, hard to imagine he would be able to agree to even that simple rule. okay. no time to keep going. former congressman joe walsh, don edwards, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. when we come back, how performers are fighting back against the taxon drag entertainment. drag entertainment. hollywood white . new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ingrezza we really don t want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it s what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it s amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer s dog is just our way to help people take care of them. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation. or an unbearable itch. this painful blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. shingles could also lead to long term, debilitating nerve pain that can last for months or even years. if you re over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 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( ) don t wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with all the money i saved i thought i d buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is. ahhh.here we go. i guess it also has some disadvantages. yes it does. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty, liberty. pride weekend is wrapping up here in washington, d.c. after thousands turned out for the annual parade yesterday, but beyond the festivities of pride month, there is also a focus on protecting lgbtq rights. a new coalition of drag kings and queens has formed a group called committee, to support drag artist who is experienced targeted hate. this week the group filed a petition to the fbi and dhs to monitor any threats that may occur during this year s pride events. last year s event saw a spike in hate and violence. at least 145 incidents of harassment, vandalism and assault were reported. another example of why committees are so necessary right now. turning right joining me right now is the president of committee, what you hope to achieve in the long run? we hope to support organizations on the ground that are doing a lot of work already. a lot of our members are allegedly active at fighting back against hate and violence and we want to be a central hub of resources to help there in the fight. last month dhs and the state department issued travel advisories but did not specify where or who might be planning attacks. the organization came out with a petition asking for protection this month. so far we ve gotten about 11,000 signatures within a couple of days of its launch, and through this, we hope to really implore law enforcement agencies to not only take the matter more seriously but reach out to organizations like ours to help and to give us more resources we can use to protect ourselves. you know, the pushback against pride month is not anything new, but does this year feel different? you know, things get a little more hype when it is election time. people come out of the woodwork. they want someone to blame and the lgbtq community is a very easy target. i feel like it is cyclical. it comes around every four years. speaking of cyclical and every four years, just this week, the colorado republican party is facing backlash after an email criticizing the lgbtq community and calling supporters of our rights quote, godless groomers. they are also calling for all pride flags to be burned. what are your thoughts about that because that is one of. examples of anti-lgbtq sentiment in the country. it sounds like the ramblings and someone who is at risk of losing his seat at the table. every time a political leader wants to bolster support, he finds some kind of scapegoat. this email is verbal pitchforks and torches and for it to happen in a place like colorado where the club shooting occurred, there were 25 injuries, five murders in that incident you know, these are the exact kind of sentiments that embolden people to then go out and commit crimes like that, and it is our job in the committee and another organizations, to try and give support to those who might be targeted by this kind of hatred. wow. thank you very much for being here and bringing your message, and what the qomittee is working on. thank you. more of the sunday show here on msnbc after a break. on msnbc after a break. to prer respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. that s it for me. thanks for watching the sunday show. follow us on x, instagram, tiktok, threads, using the handle weekend capehart. you can also listen to every episode of our show as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen right there, right now to follow. i m andrea canning and this is dateline. he calls 911 and says his wife appears dead. he said anna found her in the bathtub. i ve never seen my son shell shocked. it was a
all russian and soviet dictators, their problem is they always think that they re the last line of defense. you are in power. you have the right to, if you decide, to destroy it so nobody else will get it. the united states doesn t even notice that the soviets are on edge. they didn t even put the soviet reaction into ronald reagan s presidential daily brief. [indistinct radio chatter] [narrator] before andropov can act, the able archer operation wraps up on schedule. [pilot] roger that. [narrator] andropov is finally persuaded that this really was just an exercise. this time. [tim] the united states didn t know to ratchet down the tension when it really mattered. that is an indicator of just the lack of understanding that the united states and the soviet union had of each other. but in a nuclear confrontation, lack of understanding can have catastrophic consequences when adversaries have nuclear weapons pointed at each other and don t understand each other. every day in every state across the country, our political system is bankrolled by an army of fund-raisers, pulling in millions of dollars a race. sometimes it looks like you might imagine knocking on doors, calling every name in the phone book, and emails so many emails. but for all those little fish throwing $100 to their local race, it s the whales those campaign fund-raisers really need powerful, rich individuals and companies. and when they donate $25,000, $100,000, a million dollars, they want a favor.or 10. it should be obvious that s corrupt, but with a wink and a nod, political deals toe the bribery line every single day. and we may never have noticed that if a certain illinois governor hadn t flung back the curtain with an unrepentant ego, a political corruption crime spree, and a set of unprecedented audio recordings that shined a bright light on the inner workings of american political power. ladies and gentlemen, meet rod blagojevich. it was early morning, cause i used to get up every morning and turn on the 6:00 news, and, you know, like, you re kinda waking up, and then you re like, well, wait, what? [helicopter whirring] oh, sh , they outside of blagojevich s house! they got cameras, they got cars, and then they march him out. and you re like, that s our governor, joe. breaking news the illinois governor, rod blagojevich, charged with plotting to sell barack obama s former senate seat. tapper: remember this guy? he sure hopes you do. governor rod blagojevich went down in a blaze of infamy for one of the largest political corruption scandals of our time. the governor was allegedly trying to sell the illinois senate seat vacated by president-elect obama. in fact, part of the governor s sales pitch was that the seat still had that new obama smell. [audience laughter] appointing someone to the senate is a rare opportunity when the will of the people is swapped wholesale for a gubernatorial power trip. blagojevich had the sole authority to place whomever he wanted straight into the halls of the u.s. senate, and he was not shy about wanting a little something in return. with the fbi recording his phone calls, for the first time since nixon, the public was able to listen in on raw backroom politics, and there s nothing quite like hearing it from the horse s mouth. reporter: the criminal complaint quotes blagojevich as saying the senate seat was a valuable thing. you just don t give it away for nothing. another quote i ve got this thing, and it s bleeping golden. [blagojevich speaking] i ve got this thing, and it s [bleep] golden. -yeah. -[audience laughter] and i m not just giving it up for [bleep] nothing. [laughter] was there a second [bleep] in there? tapper: racking up a staggering 24 criminal charges, governor blagojevich s actions essentially boiled down to four things extortion, bribery, corruption, and wire fraud. and it wasn t just about the senate seat. blagojevich was also found guilty of extorting a children s hospital. you can t write this stuff. he s an arrogant punk who thinks that, you know, he s bulletproof. well, he s not. he was convicted on 18 total charges and sentenced to 14 years, the longest sentence ever handed down to a governor. people loathed blagojevich for the way he politicked, but was what he did so blatantly criminal? cause the truth is that the line between what s illegal and what s allowable is much murkier than we d like to think, and this is where the rod blagojevich story gets interesting. let me reassert to all of you once more that i am not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing. [camera shutter clicks] was rod a corrupt politician or just a politician operating in a corrupt system that still thrives to this day? so, governor, thanks for doing this. thank you. so you ve been out of prison now for almost two years. a little over two years. and you re still very outspoken about how you feel like the case against you was unjust. there isn t really an argument about what you said. -right. -it s on tape. right. the question is whether it was illegal and whether it was morally wrong. look, if you re saying, do we have a fund-raising system in america that you can arguing is legalized bribery? i think there s truth to that. but did i do anything other than that standard that every other person in politics does, from president biden on down? i did the same as them and nothing worse. there is this real problem in american politics today where prosecutors are weaponizing themselves, criminalizing routine illegal practices in government politics, and i think it s wrong when they do it to bill clinton. it s wrong, i think, when they did it to president trump cause i have strong views on that, and i know it was wrong when they did it to me. okay, lot to unpack there. let s talk about the chicago and illinois system, because you re hardly the first governor in history, even in recent history, to to go to prison. what s the situation here that causes this to happen? well, i think it s time-honored here, and there s a long history in chicago politics, illinois politics, where pretty much everybody gets rich. ah, chicago politics. it s like going to a pay pond when you go fishing. like, if you are a prosecutor, you cannot be in illinois and not get something. illinois is steeped in a rich history of political corruption that dates back a century to the prohibition era, when bootlegging gangsters such as al capone bought off politicians and police departments, keeping them drunk on power and.also just drunk. in rod s lifetime, illinois has developed a rap sheet that any mobster would be proud of more than 1,700 convictions for corruption, including nearly 30 chicago aldermen, eight stage legislators, two u.s. congressmen, and before rod came onto the scene, three governors. in an odd way, the very people who should hate the idea of corruption are kind of proud that this is al capone s illinois. chicago is a wink and a nod town. -it s a shot and a beer town. -[clink] lot of it has to do with family relationships, because a lot of the political leadership in chicago and illinois are family-related. there s the daley family, the madigans. all of these families sort of become part of this mafia. -yeah. -a political mafia, and they re the ones who make the rules. i didn t come from that. i had to marry into it. i met a girl on the 6th of march, 1988. she was wearing a red dress, and she happened to be the daughter of an old-fashioned chicago political war boss. and she s my wife patti. we fell in love. patti blagojevich is a loyal wife, she is a tough customer, and she s the daughter of dick mell. she s complicated. that budding relationship between those two is how rod goes from this nobody politically, finding a way to kind of imbed himself into one of these big political families in chicago. they have so much power. i don t think it was, you know, some great surprise that, like, you know, when it comes time to meet the parents, that dick mell was the father-in-law and the the powerful city council chieftain. we re gonna try to work together to put this great city back together so that we re all part of it and we all feel free. dick mell was a guy who always had the voice in the backrooms. he was a power broker in that kind of chicago classic sense. before politics, it was a nice relationship, but for the most part, respectful. and then because i was in the family, and i was actually pretty good at helping her dad, local politics, knocking on doors and trying to get him votes, there was an opportunity to run for office. in rod blagojevich, mell could see a guy that eventually, if he does it right, i could sort of pass the mantle toward. rod was an immediate hit with illinois voters, who sent him first to the state house in 1992 and then to the u.s. congress in 1996. dick mell says, i can see you being governor. and i gotta be honest, i m sure if i m looking at it from dick mell s position, he s saying, man, if i can elect this guy governor, i can run the whole state. reporter: the campaign for illinois governor has gotten pretty lively. you ve got chicago congressman rod blagojevich. what s that name again? -bala-jo-vich. -reporter: bala-jo-vich, huh? -bala-jo-vich. -you sure? positive. tapper: during rod s 2002 governor s campaign, dick mell s membership in the old school chicago elite was a definite bonus, but it was rod s working class bonafides and people skills that did all the rest. coming from the family he did, he had a real working class chip on his shoulder, and his two heroes were elvis and richard nixon, both because they were guys who came from the wrong side of their tracks and fought their way up and were kind of disdained by the elites. in fact, if those two gritty 20th century icons fought their way into a single person, you might actually end up with rod blagojevich, for better and for worse. the rod blagojevich that i first met was youthful. he was energetic. he had this kind of mane of black hair that was super thick, and you could tell it was filled with hair product. the hair so iconic in its own right, that it became a comedy staple on every late night show. -the hair. -the hair. really, it looks like you re wearing a toupée that s also wearing a toupée. [audience laughter] he had a huge infatuation with elvis presley. his charisma was disarming. [cheers and applause] [amplified voice] thank you. thank you very much. [cheers, whistles, and applause] but the elvis of illinois was itching to lose his colonel parker, because despite the many benefits of dick mell s patronage, rod was still in his shadow. you know, he really became known as dick mell s son-in-law first. and i know he hated that. he didn t know how to both be his own man and not let dick mell foreshadow him. the only way for rod to survive outside of his father-in-law s machine was to create his own cash flow. so his first step was to hire two of chicago s most bare-knuckled political fund-raisers, chris kelly and tony rezko. chris kelly and tony rezko could generate big bucks. they were fund-raisers. they were donors. you know, let s just call em what they were. they were influence peddlers. they wound up being able to shake the bushes here and help rod raise money. they promised access and favors if blagojevich won, and they got results. where dick mell s good old boys would fetch $2,000 at a time, kelly and rezko would shake loose 50 grand. all that money plus rod s appeal to voters who had felt ignored by the entrenched chicago political dynasties well, it proved to be an unstoppable combination. he ran on some things that were uniquely important to black people. healthcare for kids is a good idea. when he said, free rides for seniors on public transportation, that resonated with black people specifically. blagojevich became governor in 2003. -congratulations, governor. -thank you. may god bless you. [cheers and applause] how do you view your your time as governor apart from the scandals? how do i say this in a way where i don t sound like a guy without any humility? but i truly believe i was a great governor. i can t think of any governor in my life that did anything for anybody i knew that can walk around and say, you know what? thank you, governor. my daughter had healthcare through you. free public transportation for seniors and the disabled? i did that cause they raised the sales tax, which hurts working people and poor people and seniors. with the legislature raising taxes that hit lower-income illinoisans hardest, and rod striking back with policies to offset that, it s no surprise that his populist agenda made him a lot of enemies amongst the big political families. to the people and the masses, he was on our team, and to the aristocracy and to the political elites, he was this guy that was taking their resources and giving em to the peasants, and so he became robin hood. i knew the reality that i m gonna have resistance from the old guard, the old ward bosses, the madigans, daley to some extent, my father-in-law, and so the goal was raise money now and raise a lot of it so that you can afford to make enemies, and you can afford to lose support. right, but some of these people that you were that you were relying on like chris kelly were were corrupt. -right? -turned out that chris had problems in his own personal business, and he was found guilty of those things. had nothing to do with me. but, like, a lot of the people in the world of fund-raising are not necessarily. -they are not. -.upstanding individuals. -no, they re not. -yeah. -no, they re not. what s the saying? ignorance is not a defense ? tony rezco and chris kelly they started compiling this list of different entities that were state contractors, and they hit all those people up for money, probably with rod s assistance. hey, you got a contract? you wanna keep it? or you want to get more? you gotta pony up. a lot of people in play have scalpel-like tendencies when they fund-raise, and rod was probably more of a meat cleaver. [beeping] -[telephone rings] -kelly and rezco were using government levers to squeeze anyone they could for a campaign contribution kickbacks like a cushy job or a fat contract, a little light extortion such as holding up teachers funds. they had deep pockets to fill and a financial machine to do it. you can t trade official actions as a governor in exchange for campaign contributions or jobs. i mean, there is one simple word for that. it s called graft. graft is simply the use of political power and authority in exchange for personal gain. to state the obvious, appointing unqualified people to state positions because you wanna use the government as a vending machine for your political campaign that s completely illegal. the m.o. was to make money from every state petitioner possible, and small-town hospital ceo pam davis looked like just another easy mark. but in this case, the whole shakedown process is recorded by the hospital executive who was getting shaken down. [laughs] woman: he needs to reset your wire. [laughs] oh, god, another wire. sorry for, uh. -i don t care. -just in here. uh, the governor really wasn t on my radar, um, at all until i experienced an extortion attempt through one of his, um, colleagues. pam s hospital system wanted to build a new facility in plainfield, illinois. seems pretty straightforward, but there were red flags right away when she went to get government approval for the project. davis: in my case, the governor had appointed individuals to this board who had either contributed money to his campaign, so they bought their way on, or individuals that were controlled by the governor and other individuals and would approve only those projects where a kickback was going to be given. turns out the board was willing to approve the hospital. all she had to do was use builders and lenders who were in their pocket and pad the contract so the board could take. let s call it a transaction fee for their trouble. it became clear to me that this was a major extortion attempt, and i was furious. so i called the fbi. the feds set her up with a wire so they could listen in on her meetings with board members and get the dirt straight from the source. she d be meeting with these players, and they would be basically laying out the whole scheme to her. davis: the contract would be padded, um, by roughly $10 million so that that money would go then to the various players. at one point, i decided, i wonder if this goes up to the governor, because the governor appoints these individuals to the various boards. the feds were wondering the same thing, and over the course of their investigation, their suspicions proved to be spot on. out of the public eye, rod s fund-raising goons, chris kelly and tony rezko, felt safe to strong-arm money from donors across illinois. but unbeknownst to them, the fbi was following their every move as part of a far-reaching corruption investigation into the blagojevich administration. as the money rolled in, their role in rod s administration only grew, which had his father-in-law, dick mell, feeling as though he d been served divorce papers. as dick mell famously said, he got replaced by a trophy wife or trophy wives. those were the people who were getting the love that he should have gotten and wasn t getting. we all know that you got here because of dick mell. rod says, i got my own team, and so don t talk to dick mell. not only does he not do what you wanna do, but he said, don t talk to my boss. i m the boss now. well, dick mell ain t feeling that, and dick mell is not the type to be like, so, may i talk to you privately? mell wears his heart on his sleeve, his anger on his sleeve. .leave me out! he can love you today, and if he starts hating you tomorrow, he can, you know, pull the switch just like that. and mell becomes more and more resentful of being cast aside, and so that fueled this tension in that family to the point where it eventually exploded. [explosion] that explosion came in 2005, and though it may not have aired on reality tv, it was still inextricably linked to garbage. rod blagojevich closed down this landfill which dick mell was a part owner of. rod said that this was for environmental issues. tapper: what did he want you to do? leave it alone, and i had learned that it was operating in violation of the environmental laws. i had knowledge of that. uh, ultimately, i decided i had a duty, that i had to shut it down, and then he made some accusations that really unleashed the furies. dick mell called a press conference and basically accused rod blagojevich of selling board and commission seats within state government. reporter: mell has had a falling out with his son-in-law, the governor. this is a family at war. so your father-in-law, dick mell, accused chris kelly of selling political favors for campaign contributions of $25,000 to $50,000 at a time. tell me about where were you when you heard that he was leveling this accusation. i remember vividly. it was early january of 2005, and this was the consequence of me shutting down his landfill. the very next day, he called a press conference, and he was clever enough to accuse chris kelly, not directly me, but that s me. i don t think he envisioned that it would turn into something that would ultimately land me in prison, but i know he did this to hurt me politically and cause me problems with the fbi. tapper: mel s allegations backed rod into a corner, giving the fbi room to prosecute his inner circle, until in 2008, the feds secured a secret wiretap on the governor himself. feeling the squeeze, rod started looking for some kind of escape route, and then a golden opportunity landed right in his lap. at this defining moment, change has come to america. [cheers and applause] now that senator barack obama is president-elect barack obama, someone will have to take over his senate seat. this is the governor s decision. uh, it is not my decision. the criteria that i would have for my successor would be the same criteria that i d have if i were a voter. senator obama becomes president obama. he resigns his senate seat. according to the law here in illinois, you as the governor get to name his replacement. now you re excited about this, and you say on tape, i d like to get the [bleep] out of here, and you re talking about options for yourself. does that mean, i d like to get the [bleep] out of here, you were sick of being governor? that s absolutely the things i was saying, of course, and i was looking at all kinds of options. so he attempted to trade obama s seat for a golden parachute. he begins to be heavily courted by all sorts of people who would love to be that u.s. senator. they saw something really valuable here a very valuable bargaining chip that could elevate his power in some way or or benefit them monetarily. when i said i wanted to get the eff out of here, it s because the fbi people and my persecutors were all over me, and it s the sort of thing, when that stuff s swirling around you, you know that stuff s swirling around you. -right. -and it s there. it s everywhere, and it and it was just very clear to me that they were determined to get me no matter what. i guess one question i have is knowing that they were looking at you, why did you talk about this stuff that way? look, i had 2,896 days in prison to ask myself a thousand questions, including that. but you know what? what s the alternative? i have all my staff and lawyers. we all go to saunas and get naked and talk to each other so nobody s got wires on em? -no, or -what s the alternative? or you just don t say anything, or you just say, like, this seat is very important, and we wanna make sure the best person gets it. and separately, i am thinking that i d like to not be governor of illinois anymore. well said. i don t make a habit of telling politicians how to avoid jail time, but here s the thing. being more cautious could have gotten rod everything he wanted and kept him out of prison, but caution is not really in rod s dna. [blagojevich speaking] [line disconnects] jackson: you know they taping you, so you can t say that out loud, right? breaking news the illinois governor charged with plotting to sell barack obama s former senate seat. reporter: illinois rod blagojevich was arrested tuesday morning by federal authorities and charged with corruption. dude. dude! dude. you know they trying to get you, dawg. but why? why? reporter: the day after being arrested on corruption charges, illinois governor rod blagojevich walked out of his house and headed back to work. -[camera shutter clicks] -tapper: all in all, rod blagojevich was facing 24 charges connected to four specific events the attempted sale of obama s senate seat, withholding legislation that would benefit a children s hospital and racetrack in an attempt to get political contributions, and the attempted extortion of a highway contractor. [amplified voice, chanting] 2, 3, 4, blago must go! i personally think he should at least step aside if not resign. my husband is an honest man, and i know that he s innocent. jackson: he thought that he had the moral high ground. i don t believe there s any cloud that hangs over me. -man: governor, governor -well, getting back to that, can we discuss your i think there s nothing but sunshine hanging over me. he didn t show any of the humility or anything. you just can t stick your finger in the eye of the federal government. let me reassert to all of you once more that i am not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing, that i m confident that at the end of the day, i will be, uh, properly, uh, exonerated. [reporters speaking at once] i represented rod blagojevich in two of his criminal trials. i mean, he wanted to fight his case. he believed he was innocent, and he was working to that end to try and prove his innocence. anyone who believes that this was a selling of some senate seat doesn t understand politics. every single day in politics, that is what happens, is this horse-trading. and if you really listen to this in context, what you heard was talking with various people, getting annoyed, talking about nonsense, and then the end. nothing really that was ever acted on. later, rod blagojevich s lawyers would argue that what rod did specifically with the senate seat was no worse than when president eisenhower appointed earl warren as chief justice of the supreme court. back in 1952, dwight eisenhower s about to win the nomination to become the republican president. earl warren, the governor of california, is withholding the delegation s votes. governor warren tells eisenhower, i ll deliver the delegation for you on one condition. i wanna be the next chief justice of the supreme court. ike, the great war hero, shakes hands, says, you got a deal. he wins. one year later, earl warren is the chief justice of the united states supreme court. rod wanted a political appointment from obama, and for that, he was prepared to trade obama s old senate seat, which is actually legal. otherwise, eisenhower would have gone to jail, and americans would not have liked ike. do you see yourself as somebody who was just trying to function in perhaps an inherently corrupt but legal system, and that theoretically almost any politician could be snagged the way you were? absolutely. of course i do, except i m giving me higher marks. because i was using that money that that and that power gave me to fight an established system that served itself on the backs of the people, and when you do that, you piss a lot of people off, and they wanna get rid of you. but do you think that you re earthier about it? like, more outspoken about it? well, i wasn t hiding any of it, but these because it s legal, and that s how you govern. abraham lincoln was able to get the 13th amendment passed at congress, which ratified the emancipation proclamation, freeing slaves. he had to make political deals with members of congress to get the votes to pass it. -that s how you get things done. -you re not comparing yourself to abraham lincoln. -by no means. -okay. -and please say that. i m not comparing myself to abraham lincoln. you re not or the emancipation proclamation. okay, right. he s a lot taller than me, and i never did anything as great as that, of course not. -but you re also not talking about the i mean, the emancipation proclamation of course i m not. governor blagojevich tried to sell the appointment to the senate seat vacated by president-elect obama. the conduct would make lincoln roll over in his grave. you re very critical of pat fitzgerald. yeah, he s an evil guy. he s a wicked guy. he s a scoundrel, and he deserves to get an ass kicking. you know? and he s a big coward. anyway, go ahead. sorry. well, i think he would take issue with everything you just said. you know, he has a reputation for being the choirboy, for being, you know, an upstanding, moral person. he sees himself as, i am trying to uphold some basic standards for our politicians. that s how he views it. governor blagojevich has been arrested in the middle of what we can only describe as a political corruption crime spree. we had a political and public narrative that we had to overcome, and when the entire potential jury pool believes that your client is guilty before they ve even heard the evidence, you re going into the trial like if it s a basketball game, you re losing 100 to nothing. or it s like if you re a governor, and you re getting impeached 114 to 1, and the lone vote in rod s favor his sister-in-law, deb mell. done from office and eager to prove he was not a crook, rod knew exactly where to plead his case. please welcome to the program governor rod blagojevich! [applause] you are a charming dude with the best set of hair i ve ever [bleep] seen. [audience laughter] so i want this to be real. got some challenges ahead, but, uh, i m gonna trust in the truth and as it says in the bible, the truth shall set you free. rod blagojevich just.kept.talking. how are you? you wanna get on tv? come on in. i think he was able to warm himself a little bit with the public. better to be seen as a klutz than a crook. sure, everyone loves a good laugh, but oversaturating the talk show circuit may have had unintended consequences, as david letterman told rod when he appeared on the late show in 2009. the more you talked and the more you repeated your innocence, the more i said to myself, oh, this guy s guilty. [laughter] so during the period from your impeachment to your trial and your sentencing, you did a lot of media appearances. what was the strategy behind that? my feeling was like, look, i didn t do any of that stuff, and what does somebody do who s being lied about? but you have a tremendous desire to get out at the highest mountain and yell out, i didn t do it. well, letterman said that the louder you yelled it, the more it made him think you were guilty. yeah. yeah, i mean, i didn t i didn t convince him, but, uh, i think i convinced donald trump. that s why i got invited on celebrity apprentice, right? i have great respect for your tenacity, for the fact that you just don t give up. but, rod.you re fired. what i saw over the course of rod s career was a guy who started off as kind of a charming rogue and a guy who really did give voice to concerns that people had to someone who became almost a parody of himself. and by the time that trial came around, he really was his own worst enemy. see you in court. he thought that the court of public opinion could save him, but he had disturbed forces that decided, it was a wrap for you, dude. don t poke the feds, fam. just don t do it. man: blago, can i get your autograph? reporter: at verdict today, in a notorious case that federal prosecutors did not want to hear, rod blagojevich was convicted today on only one count. -see you guys! -man: way to go, baby! tapper: the jury was hung on all but one of the charges against blagojevich, and without unanimous consent, the result was a mistrial on the remaining 23 charges. the jury, like a lot of people to this day, just could not agree on whether what he d done was actually illegal. in that first trial, the jury deadlocked on everything except for lying to the fbi. -right. you were convicted of lying to the fbi. -right. -do you acknowledge that you lied to the fbi? -no. no. i don t. i ll tell you about that. it was about how much of your associates that were fund-raising for you, the degree to which you knew what you were doing. yeah, it was the issue was i said, i didn t, as a practice, track fund-raising. and who got contracts? i didn t. i didn t look into who got contracts. i wasn t interested in that. i had 27,000 contributors. i wasn t tracking who gave me money, who got what. the first trial was too confusing for the jury, and they had a lot of paper documents. it was a lot of witness testimony. man: governor, are you anxious for this to begin? i feel great. absolutely. what the government did in the second trial is they pared down their their case, and they believed that everything was in the tapes and they needed to make this trial a lot simpler. [blagojevich speaking] he was swearing a lot. .and upset and not appreciative of the position that he had. and i think that was more influential in the jury s decision than than anything. it made him look bad. breaking news right now the jury has reached a decision, convicting blagojevich on 17 counts of corruption. -reporter: wire fraud. -bribery. blitzer: attempted extortion. solicitation of a bribe. blitzer: racketeering. conspiracy to commit bribery and conspiracy to commit extortion. rod blagojevich was convicted on almost all counts and sentenced to 14 years. patti and i are obviously very disappointed, uh, in the outcome. i, frankly, am am stunned. when did you realize, oh, shit, i might actually be going to prison ? -from the beginning. -really? -i knew i was a dead man. -really? -yeah. -why? cause they have so much power and resources, and i, you know, wasn t really surprised when i got 14 years. the justification for the judge was, you treated this like a golden glove boxing match, but those corrupt liars are lucky dueling is outlawed, cause i d have challenged them to a duel. rapists and murderers get so much less time? that s why this system is so wrong and so broken. let me offer you an alternate theory. sure. my alternate theory is that the entire system of justice that we have in this country depends on prosecutors and police who are incentivized to get convictions. -mm-hmm. -period. what do you think of that? well, i think you re almost right. [laughs] i never took a penny. no one says i did. i keep saying that cause that s so important to me. i don t want people to think that i was some one of these corrupt politicians that was taking cash. tapper: but remember, even though he never actually got that envelope full of money, that was because the feds closed in before the senate deal was done. the offers being considered, campaign contributions or a lucrative job in a nonprofit, the fact of accepting them that would have been simply illegal, hence, the charge of conspiracy to commit bribery, which he was definitely guilty of. rod s argument is no cash changed hands, but prior to that, there had been plenty of money changing hands. there s ample evidence these government positions, these government contracts they were effectively for sale. it does not matter if rod blagojevich actually won the argument and got the money or the donations he was seeking. it s the ask. if something goofs it up, but the burglary or robbery s interrupted, it doesn t make it less of an intended burglary or robbery, right? he had his day in court. that 14 years was what the system gave him. so you went to prison for almost eight years? 2,896 days. and let me tell ya what gets you through prison when you have to face something like that. it s love and it s faith love for my daughters and my wife. you know, when i was arrested, within days, the vegas oddsmakers had it 9 to 1 that she was leaving. so in that sense, i ve been so lucky and blessed. after he was sent to prison, patti proclaimed his innocence, and she did try and go to any leader that she could find to have him either pardoned or commuted. and when all else failed, patti blagojevich knew exactly who to appeal to next. after rod goes to prison, patti was essential in keeping their life together. more than anything else, maybe, she got in donald trump s ear. trump had a connection with blagojevich cause rod was on the apprentice, and patti blagojevich was on fox news every day. you know, we know that president trump is a kind man, and he s compassionate. he s always been kind to my family. and when you speak on fox news, you have a direct connection with donald trump. today the president sprung from prison former illinois governor rod blagojevich, who was convicted after attempting his own quid pro quo. yes, uh, we have commuted the sentence of rod. i watched his wife on television. quote, um, i watched his wife on television. -yes. -end quote. how did how did that happen? i think he just saw he he would tell me he liked the fact that i was fighting back. i remember him saying something like, uh, you know, i have friends that go through what you re going through, and they re in a corner. they can t even move, and you re out there throwing punches. i think he liked that. i m so grateful to him. sometimes things happen in life where god intervenes in the most unbelievable ways. trump, blagojevich, fox news? i m not sure how much god played a role in any of this. when rod came home from prison after eight years, his daughters had grown up. how are your relationships with them? they re good. i m i m getting to know them. our family was broken for a long time. the difficulties that i talked about with my father-in-law, those were heartbreaking, because in spite of everything, i love him, and he s been good to me in so many ways. and, uh, you know, it s been a tough road for my wife. our lives could have been so much simpler, so much better. understandably, rod looks back on the time away from his family with regret, not for what he did, of course, but that he was sent to prison in the first place. but what else would you expect from rod? i am a political prisoner. i was put in prison for practicing politics. wait a minute. you re a political prisoner? nelson mandela was a political prisoner. political prisoners have no due process. i was thrown in prison and spent nearly eight years in prison for practicing politics, for seeking campaign contributions without a quid pro quo. you do have an obligation to at least admit what you did wrong, and you refuse to do that, and you re creating a whole new alternate universe of facts, and that may be big in politics today, but it s still, frankly, just bullshit. a reporter, uh, asked you if you wanted to say sorry to the people of illinois, and you said, sorry for what? -do you still feel that way? -very much so. i ve done a lot wrong. criminal? none. you and your defenders argue that the persecution, prosecution of you is about the criminalization of politics. in other words, there is horse-trading that goes on in politics. you do me this favor. i ll do you this favor, and that s all you were doing, and that it s legal, but they made it out to be illegal. well, first of all, it s not illegal. now you can argue whether we should improve our laws. that s a valid thing. i would think there s a lot of room to improve the fund-raising laws, but that s not illegal at all, and it s a common practice. now ultimately, after i ve been in prison for four years, the appellate court reverses that big lie of the sale of the senate seat, and they said it s routine political logrolling. and look, that s partially true. the court did vacate the conviction related to obama s senate seat, but they never said he did nothing wrong. the court said there was a jury instruction issue, and they upheld the remaining 13 counts. so contrary to his claim, he has not been exonerated. and for the love of elvis, we can only hope that rod s crimes are not routine. if there is a big lie, it s that he s a victim, especially since every other charge was upheld, including the extortion of a children s hospital. gandhi, he ain t. this isn t some sort of mystery, that, gosh, i didn t know. i had no idea. it s so gray. really? i think most of us have some gut sense of when we re beginning to get in trouble. i don t believe blagojevich has ever done any reflection on right and wrong. extorting a hospital never occurred to him that that might harm the citizens that he was elected to protect. he he has no ability to look at anything but himself. that s it. that s it. what s the worst thing that can be said about you that s accurate in your view, other than you were stupid to say that stuff? sure. look, i ve been accused of being a narcissist. i might plead to a misdemeanor on that, okay? um, i think i my judgment of some people was way off. i think i should have been a lot more vigilant and see some of the warning signs. i knew they were aggressively out there raising money, and i didn t slow it down because i wanted to raise the campaign money. i could have been more vigilant on that in retrospect. close, but no cigar. whether or not rod trusted the wrong people, he set them loose on illinois because they brought him the most money. whether the rules on political fund-raising are flimsy guardrails at best,
we re talking about cashbackin. not a game! we re talking about cashbacking. we re talking about. we re not talking about practice? no. cashbacking. word. we re talking about cashbacking. cashbacking. cashbacking. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? american democracy after the hardest of things. it to believe that you are part of something bigger than yourself. we have never had a significant anniversary of d- day where democracy and western democracy felt as under threat and as fraught as it does this year. both in europe and at home. what do you make of donald trump s threats to jail his political opponents? i will talk you in about three years from now. you have to take donald trump at his word. i think there is nothing that will stop him from doing such things. the jury in hunter biden s trial was just dismissed for the weekend after emotional testimony from hunter s daughter. will wait to see whether hunter biden will testify in his own defense on monday. will you accept the jury outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? yes. and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? yes. i just went to a riggs trial in new york. s first public campaign stops and says guilty convictions. if we don t win this country is finished. i really believe that, i think it is finished. i simply refuse to believe that america s greatness is a thing of the past. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. we are now 151 days away from the election, and the contrast between the two presidential candidates could not be any clearer. this week president biden took action to close the border, and then traveled to france for the 80th anniversary of d-day where he stressed u.s. support for our allies. at donald trump, on the other hand, rallied against his guilty verdict, the judicial system, and then threatened to seek revenge with any possible person who has slighted him. let s bring in our nightcap and discuss all this. my friend, steve liesman is here. lizz winstead, cocreator of the daily show. she is also the cocreator. pablo torre, host of the public toray podcast. and to ray, host on thegrio. we look at this week you have president biden talking about freedom and the fight against tyranny, both 80 years ago and today, and then you have donald trump talking about how revenge is justified. liz, talk to us about where these two campaigns are and where they appear to be headed? tyranny of the past and tyranny of the present is basically what we are talking about. where are they heading? sometimes i honestly look at these two things and i think will the selection simply come down to will trump have more disillusioned people that won t show up or will biden have more dissolution people that won t show up? and that scares me. because i feel like for those of us doing the work, in the streets every day defending people s freedoms, if trump wins again, what we are facing is no dissent. and with no dissent we cannot challenge any of it. but, if he wins again there is no surprises about who donald trump is. in 2016 you can make the argument. people don t realize who he is. remember, he had all these people like no, no, you don t realize what you are in for. america knows exactly what they re in for. you say no. you know, there seems to be a lot of delusion. we hear a lot about the trump era was great, the trump administration was great. as if coven just did not happen. as if there was some reason why those last two years just don t count against his record. i don t remember covid but i definitely remember infrastructure week. infrastructure week was every week. i feel like trump is the most selfish person in the world, and everything revolves around me personally. every political issue comes back to me, myself. this woman asked him, this reporter asked him, katie from alabama wants to know what is your relationship with god? and he said i do very well with the evangelicals. that is not the question you were asked! and biden, to me, seems very outward. he is thinking about others. how can i help other people? think about the key moment of his life, losing a major chunk of his family in one horrific moment, as a relatively young man. who learned empathy, and to think about others and the importance of family. and this other person, who every bad characteristic we don t want our children to have, he has. i think what you said, you know, what is the question being asked and what are we trying to answer as instructed to what the biden campaign, i believe, should be trying to do? framing this even beyond needing to pay attention to the newsday today. more choice between extremism and not. i just wonder why we are not generally describing trump more as an extremist. forget about, again, let s not forget about the issues, people on the ground doing good work. when it comes to what are we expecting out of this, do you want someone who feels like they are attacking every institution, who is, again, do we need to recite the litany of felons and felonies? let s just talk about not being that. okay, but here is possibly why i think this is playing out. because, though they shouldn t be, president biden is focusing voters on democracy and on freedom. and these are fundamentally important things, but somehow they get viewed as kind of lofty ideals, and trump goes straight to the gut and grievance. because people don t know what it is like not to have it. i lived in russia for six years. they didn t understand democracy. they didn t know what it was like to not be, sort of the possibility of randomly being arrested and otherwise having appeal. but can i just go back to the beginning of the show? did all that stuff in this montage happened just this week? and there is 151 days, which means 21 weeks if my math is right. i m wondering if i have the stamina to make it through this, if this is just one week s worth of stuff. i really think this is going to be rather a dramatic, caustic, and i think biden is going to have to really bring home what is the absence of democracy, which is a very tough thing, whereas trump has only to say look, we can do all these things, everything can be great, and full of wall is not a sinitic and thing people think about. trump is a great salesman for his diseased ideas. biden has not yet shown himself to be a great salesman of his ideals, of what he has done. and there is a very significant and real and honest critique of biden from the left. that he has not done enough on what is going on in gaza. and there are a lot of people who would be democrats otherwise who will not support him because of that. i hear you. what s the conversation to have with that voter about what former president trump will do with the situation in gaza? was it not nikki haley a few weeks ago, when she went over there and said it is the job? you know, what lizz said about the margins is important. don t think about the potential, the imaginary hypothetical biden trump voter. i don t think that person really exist. there are a couple, but not many. there is a lot. know, the election is going to be about can trump get people who will say it is either trump or stay home? and can biden get people who say it is either biden or i stay home? the election is going to be won on those margins. and biden does have this significant issue, that a lot of people. there is agoing around on it tiktok . i don t know if using it. tiktok, home of misinformation central. we can talk about tiktok later. but they asked with man, gun to your head, would you vote for biden or trump? and he said the gun would go off . it is a meme that has been shared by people who are saying i will not go with any of them. this is my point about extremism or not. biden should also be as popular as the field broadly. do you want trump or anybody else? we are at a point where trump is not just specifically dystopian in the ways that we may remember or not, based on our experience during the pandemic. he is also just clearly against the will of all is the concept. so i think the question of democracy is how do you make this a tangible, scarier thing? because currently i think talking about democracy as a concept is a little pie-in-the- sky. the thing about democracy dying in darkness did not really work as a slogan for the washington post. it this week, with the remembrance of d-day, it was not just the stark contrast between president biden and donald trump. it was also between donald trump and ronald reagan. ronald reagan gave one of the most important speeches of his presidency in normandy. he stood against russian aggression, he stood with his nato allies. so isn t there question to ask of all republican voters, where has your party gone? because the current gop and what donald trump represents bears almost no resemblance to ronald reagan. correct. it is why you saw joe biden looking almost like reagan and referencing him while he was in france this week. i mean, i am just not going to go down that path, because i am somebody who doesn t have friends who are alive because of ronald reagan. so when i think about waxing back to the people who laid the foundations for this evolution, trump did not come to us in a vacuum. trump came to us because people laid foundations for hatred and bigotry and sexism. and i feel like i don t want to go back to the party that i could recognize of ronald reagan. but what i do want to say is people that we are leaving out of this conversation are the voters. i am constantly saying to people the election is not the end game. it is the starting game. you get the democracy you want and you get the democracy you participate in. and who do you want to fight? that is my whole thing. who do you want to fight? do you want to fight a madman? or do you want to fight somebody who might listen to you where you can get the needle move? because these other people. i do not think the election is going to be won by biden if he is taking democracy his issue. i think it has to be the economy. all of our polling shows people are most concerned about inflation, most concerned about jobs, most concerned about the economy. democracy should be like the sprinkles you get with the ice cream cone, if the ice cancun is the economy. but without a functioning democracy you can throw your economy out the window. that the economy is always the number one issue. finish your thought. i was just going to say that if he does not win it on the record that he is running on which is a strong one. which is a pretty strong one , and a vision of the future, i don t think he wins it by saying i am the democracy guy and that guy isn t. we are talking two different languages as far as the folks who may vote for biden and the folks who may vote for trump. i mean, this is not about issues at all. this is about personality. this is about who you believe. and the people on the right, like joy reed talks about earth one and earth two. the people on the right live on earth two. and we can sit here and believe the nothing that you believe is factual. we can go on and on. january 6, climate change, the election, the trial. but they are affirmed in their miss belief constantly, and they think we don t know what is reality. this is why i feel like the whole felonies thing should and hopefully does cut through to a silent majority, not to evoke reaganism s, but a silent majority of people who are like i am in earth one resident that i am just not that proud of it. it is, for me, a bridge too far, when we have a convicted felon surrounded by felons being again in the white house. i feel like i just want to simplify it down to do you want the felony guy or anyone else? that is a great question. donald trump wanted more than his face, wouldn t he be doing everything possible to court the nikki haley voter? he disrespected nikki haley in every possible way and still she endorsed him. if she actually wanted to win, it wouldn t he say she is my running mate, let s go for the gold? he hasn t, instead it is president biden who is putting together a coalition to try to go to for those voters and risking losing progressive voters in the mix. i wonder when we say nikki haley voter, i would wonder if they were not so psyched about nikki haley, or if they were just like i don t want trump. i am not like everything about nikki haley is just awesome. people weren t saying that. i feel like him going for that voter after he saw emma we saw the numbers after iowa. was it 28% of those people who said if nikki haley is not the nominee i could possibly vote for biden? i think when trump doesn t go out and try to expand his base he never has. but let me finish. why is even doing that? that should be the sign to everybody, he is not trying to expand past due. he is not looking at a world for you. can i do some reporting here with lizz ? i might be messing up the order of your show here. but when roe was first overturned we saw abortion rise up to the top of issues. since then we have seen it fall down. and i know the democrats are making a big deal of the abortion issue. do you think it is something that motivates voters? i don t think it is going to be democracy, and i am wondering if it is going to be abortion as something that trumps the economy, for lack of a better term, and becomes a real motivating issue. well, i am the right person to ask. no, no, only because you might not know this, i am on the ground all the time talking to people. and this is where democrats are actually making a mistake. i do think abortion, abortion polls better than politicians. in these ballot initiatives we are seeing in over a dozen states were initiated by the people, not by politicians. by the people. people who held their abortion stories to themselves for years, saw this as a time, and this isn t a couple people. you have to get 200, 500 in florida, 900,000 validated signatures to get it on the ballot. the question is will people vote for biden and the initiative, what we saw in kansas, the very first one, that people voted overwhelmingly for their abortion initiative and still voted for some of the people who created the laws in the first place. what? so, what we should carefully be looking at is these initiatives, i think, are going to greatly help down ballot. they are going to help senate races and places that will be surprising. congressional races. and will people say i am going to vote for everybody but biden? that is the question somebody needs to answer. we can do that in the next poll. we can ask about that. please do. the president took pretty aggressive action on immigration this week. it has been a vulnerability for him. republicans are going to say it is too little too late. how do you think it is going to play out? and just to be clear, republicans have done nothing on immigration, and thanks to donald trump, blotch doing anything legislative. this is how the republican party has shifted the overton window in their direction. we talked about the border, and about immigration. immigration is not a central issue in american life. it is not the source of crime, it is not changing the economy. republicans have made it this central issue. and people believe it. whether it actually is an issue in daily life are not is somewhat irrelevant, because republicans have been successful in convincing the american people. that s what i m saying, they have made us think about it when it is not as important as they wanted to be. i think this is the frustration for anybody who is not trump, joe biden specifically. your running election campaign, and administration based on it, i think, a practical execution of hopefully reasonable and increasingly moderated policies, and donald trump is running on vibes. it is a vibes based campaign. and the question, fundamentally, returns to turnout. vibes is too polite award for a period anger, resentment, ancient nightmares awake into the bloodstream of people who feel like they re being threatened by non-threats. i m sorry, i have a different view on this. i want to see the person advising biden on the politics of immigration fired. i think he has been behind the curve on this. he has let the republicans take this to a place where it shouldn t go. from a narrative perspective, but not a policy perspective. what have they done on the policy front? from a narrative perspective, if he is doing what he is doing now, why couldn t he have done that months ago? okay, fine. but hold on. you can argue with when he did it, but now he is doing it. now he is doing it. what have republicans done? nothing. they have objected to a deal that was apparently done that was agreed to, but the second thing i wanted say they want to continue to set this up as a problem. the second thing i want to say is there are some issues where you want to take on the lack of facts and the misdirection had on. this issue of immigration, i think, should be one that should be approached with much more sympathy for the people who are afraid and scared, and i think rather than head on white, which people? the immigrants? the people in montana who are worried about people crossing the border in xcode. you don t make it to montana. never make it to montana. so we should worry about what people in montana and west virginia should think about it? we already do. this is what is motivating them. and i think there is a way to address this in a way that is more understanding and less in- your-face. more understanding of what white people in montana think? exactly. here s why, because they vote. i don t think steve is saying because they are white. hold on a second. i don t think it steve is saying that person in montana is right. i think what he is saying is they vote. at the very least you have to acknowledge who that person is, where they are, and speak to them. the issue has already coddled them immensely by wrapping them in this notion of the demonization, i mean, so many americans would think of immigration and think of somebody getting murdered by an immigrant. but that is not the core of our relationship with immigrants in this country. and the right has made it that. yes, but the most important word that you said right there is made. because they made it that. because they solidified this falsehood, you have to at least address it and try to start solving for them. and you understand how people are scared? but who is scared? white people? white people. but we are continuing to be asks to be sensitive to the fears of white people? that are not real fears. it does not matter if they are real fears. they vote. i guess it is my question. genuine human empathy is being considered anybody s peers. i think we are trying to do empathy but also cold calculus about getting their votes. we are trying to disabuse them of the lies and ways that damages them in terms of their sense of security and sense of self. but before we get back in, i just want to ask what does it take to coddle the abstract montana and that is afraid that someone in mexico is coming over to take their job? there is a community i know in wyoming. they had no people from south america. all of a sudden they had 12 people. this was a huge change for them, and everybody, all of a sudden they had to teach esl. great, and guess what? that town in montana or wyoming had jobs for those people. they absolutely did, and those people added to the jobs and there were not people to do the jobs they were doing. all that is good stuff. i am just saying the change, the challenge makes people uncomfortable. i am wondering before we take them head-on if there is a way to talk to them. in an understanding way. last point. this is bigger than the immigration. because this is the republican pattern. create a fear that is not real, pass legislation that only harms other people, then the fear stopped because it never existed. and they think they won. they have done it with abortion, they have done it with lgbtq, trans people. there s kids who are pooping and cat boxes in schools! no, there isn t. if they were kids pooping in cat boxes in schools, high school kids would have put it on instagram. so, to me, it is a microcosm of the playbook and how do we dismantle that playbook to stop having that fear, and stopping the bs around it? we have to go to commercial, but i don t actually think you and steve disagree. i don t. no, i am not prioritizing the feelings of white so we do disagree. but i think that all steve is trying to say here is these people and their fears, he is not saying let s appeal to them. but if we simply ignore it then we are sending this people into trump s arms. we can practically see the statue of liberty when we walk outside this building. we are supposed to be a nation that welcomes immigrants. i mean, none of us were born here, right? but now we have this very hateful, xenophobic approach to a certain kind of immigrant. it is disgusting, and the notion that we should kowtow to the fears that have been grading these people. i am not saying you are kowtowing to anything, but if you don t at least speak to that person you are sending them into the arms of donald trump and going wild are that these people voting for donald trump? because they are getting it to work. and i am not saying they should be coddled. i am saying shouldn t we at least acknowledge them and get a basis of truth back to the center? this is part of what we are talking about when the new york times does what is going on in the world? we ask trump voters. they don t care, we don t care what they think. we don t have to be constantly checking in with what they think. i also think it is the responsibility of white people to educate white people. it should not be placed on lichen brown people and immigrants. i would like to know what it would take to achieve the persuasion that immigrants are not so scary. i would like a practical proposal before i decide to sort of center the feelings of people who are fed lies. what if you didn t reject the fears? and by the way, i am wanting to correct the record. i m not talking about coddling the fears of white people. i feel like there 20 a black and brown people concerned about immigrants coming over the border, taking their jobs. no one is taking anyone s jobs, we have a labor shortage. you have been there could be a rainbow coalition of people who believe that there isn t. i think we acknowledge the people have a right to have fear and be concerned, and not dismiss those fears. besides the four of you, someone else is screaming at me and it is the producers. we have to go to a commercial. there s five people yelling. when we return, the last four years have been great for the wealthiest americans. so i want to know why so many of the richest of the rich are opening their wallets, their hearts, their minds, and buying into his propaganda and pushing donald trump. i need some answers to this. and later, phenom caitlin clark gets hip checked and starts a bigger conversation about women s basketball when our nightcap and the 11th hour continues. s. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: marnina learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don t stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don t take dovato if you re allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about dovato. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. in the week since donald trump was found guilty of 34 counts in a new york courtroom, some of the wealthiest americans have come out to announce their support for him. steve, i really, really want to talk about this. because just in the last week donald trump has this new crop of not even your average wall street is disguised. i mean the top of the top most successful. coming out, throwing parties for him, supporting him, and even making arguments that are not true. in the last 24 hours i have heard some of these guys say well, when joe biden asked that last covid relief, which, you know, killed us in terms of inflation. unemployment had already completely recovered. that is a lie. and an uninformed voter might not realize that. but i am talking about the most informed voters, the most successful guys in business are pushing trump lies on their, in a field that is their own expertise. why is this? the corporate tax cuts are going to be on the table in 2025. if you end up supporting trump you are most likely to keep those corporate tax cuts and lower tax brackets, because, by the way, i don t think trump is going to address the deficit at all, either. the record shows that perhaps some of the fiscal spending had a part in the inflation, but it was more about supply shocks, the inability to get stuff into the country, the reduction in the ability to spend on services, so all this money to buy patio furniture and stuff like that, all of the sudden that shot up and all of a sudden we had problems with some food distribution. and that has come off in a very big way. there has been extraordinary progress on the inflation rate but has not brought down the inflation level. and don t overstated, biden has plenty of very, very wealthy supporters. but you are right to point out how extraordinary it is that some of these folks, especially in tech land, are the ones who are out there saying i am going to vote for trump or support trump. and to read, for example, david sachs tweet today on the economy is just to be amazed that a guy with that much money . here s the thing. i get that inflation is difficult. these people who are now supporting donald trump have had extraordinary, extraordinary last few years. bill ackman this week, what is it announced? he is worth $8 million. think of everything president biden has done for electric vehicles. a huge win for elon musk. yet they are railing against this disastrous economy, when it has been a perfect one for them. i think, first off, taxes, let s start with that. and then get to realizing that for these guys, in silicon valley especially, shame feels like a market inefficiency. wait, hold on, if i don t have to care about the judgments of people who are paying attention to the news, maybe i can do the thing that donald trump offers uniquely, in my memory, of american presidents. which is the ability to dictate actual policy. the ability to get favors. i feel like this is the other part of the trump administration that goes underrated because we are talking about the bed of nails that is every single scandal. he is for sale. look at the adelson family. go down the risk of donors and what you get. if you are tech billionaire, ceo, philosopher, king. that is what these guys want to be. they know better. they may think trump is an idiot, and i think they do, but they also think they can puppeteer hemenway s, and they can help run the country. and that is something that joe biden does not offer them. the white house is for sale. and in some way, is this like re-creating putin s oligarchs, but here? you know, i have been listening to you, and i can t believe we are here, again. and a real chance that he might win. and something i ve read the criminologist talk about, the reason why jail does not work as a deterrent. because a lot of people do a stint in prison and they come out and they go oh, i can do that. now i m going to go back to the street, because that wasn t that bad. and for a lot of people they are like we survived trump. it wasn t that bad. covid does not count on his record, for some reason. and they are like we could do this again. and it doesn t make any sense. and i get a footnote to the oligarch story? a lot of those guys ended up exiled and dead. i don t know that all the people who are supporting trump understand the final end result of kleptocracy. okay, because you are asking for people to have something beyond short-term. it works for a little bit. but, see, we are talking about hugely successful masters of the universe who believe well, that will never happen to me. you know that is the way they all think. i think that is right. they re not thinking it through. i think they are also missing, getting back to the first conversation we had, the essential connection between democracy and free markets. what makes free markets work is the rule of law, and if the rule of law is something that is on the whim of the president you have a real problem with your free markets. lizz, let s talk about sort of these loud, influential voices were suddenly backing former president trump. why they would be doing it. i understand, inflation is a really difficult. you want to buy a house, rent an apartment, get any insurance, things are really difficult. but suddenly this group of people backing the former president, it does not really make sense from a policy perspective. why do you think it is happening? well, when you look at how many of them are feel adjacent, this is not my will house. but i d do see and have met and have been hit on by very, very, very rich and powerful men. and all those zeroes don t add inches, and somehow i think they do. and if that stays in the show i am proud of you. i promise you it will. because honestly, i don t have an answer. we are on life. is a family show until now. but honestly, what is the thing you are missing? what is the emotional thing you are missing? you are talking about the intellect of these individuals, and so much of it is about the performance of this analogy that trump offers, the ego. and if you have a massive ego, one of these masters of the universe, wall street, silicon valley, i completely understand why you rock with trump. because that ego seems to be like that is my guy, that s the guy want to be with. i am also just not convinced that they actually like him. that s correct, they don t. they think he is a puppet. i think that they are unbothered by the performance that trump does, which is a key, visceral distinction that i have with these people. but also, i think, what they want is power. trump offers them power. these guys right now believe they can purchase a bat phone into the oval office if donald trump wins. and it was funny, somebody on tv said to me the other day, yeah, but what if donald trump turns on them? what if he doesn t deliver than that? he might, though. and joe biden definitively will not. so they will roll the dice. i think we make a mistake in this country, that because you made a lot of money here you must be smart about things over here. we do it all the time on cnbc, and it is something that i disagree with. but like we will have a billionaire and asked him what he thinks about healthcare. and unless he made his billions in healthcare i am not really sure i care. it s a great point. it s interesting, but it is not essential. it is interesting as we talk , that the pronoun hymn has been used to bunch. because we ve been talking a bunch about men. and even when you said because they make money here they don t do it over there, when you think of somebody who is a billionaire, like the woman who invented spanks. sarah blakely. people are not going to sarah blakely, what do you think about what is going on over there? i don t anybody is asking these guys. these guys have realized they can become business celebrities. do you think somebody a year and half ago said what does bill ackman think about anything other than investing? no one asked him. but now he is posting tweets. it became a twitter personality. so the adrenaline addiction is real. they are all addicted to dealmaking, and now they have become business celebrities. this is a part of capitalism. the people who succeeded the most and capitalism must be the most intelligent people in the country. trump succeeded in capitalism. soon enough, he did not. he did! he took a big chunk of money from his dad. lost a bigger chunk. right, we think of him, he is so dumb. he is proof that you can be wealthy and done at the same time. is also not a successful business person. everyone is staying right here. when we return, fans love her. but caitlin clark is getting a mixed reception from the players in her first year of going pro. why one foul has people talking when the 11th hour in the nightcap continues. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. - so this is pickleball? 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon it s time to get away and cash in at cache creek casino resort. to rock and to roll. to go all out or go all in with four stars and rising stars. northern california s premier casino resort is the perfect place to do as much. or as little as you want. make your getaway now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. basketball star caitlin clark continues to crowd the spotlight as her wnba career kicks off. but it is a foul against her from nearly a week ago that is still in the headlines. pablo, she got body checked by another player. so why are people still talking about it? walk us through what happened in the line of all these new threads. on some level it is a simple story. it was a hard foul, should have been called a flagrant. wasn t, had to be assessed as such retroactively. but the reason it has continued is because it fits into this larger story, which is less and less about caitlin clark, and is a through line for today s show, perhaps, and more and more about us, the voters, so to speak. because it is a perfect culture war story. uninformed voters versus informed voters. and it is about vibes. so i want to address the feelings, because these are sincerely held. it is more than just the great white hope. it is more than just a minority group in this sport actually being a majority outside of it. wnba famously is 60% black women. so you have this star who is bringing attention, record ratings, real business for the first time in the history of the sport. and simultaneous to that you have a lot of people who pre- existed in this sport, who built this sport, who are saying we have not felt the advantages of being the majority group in a business that now everybody cares about. and so, a lot of people have a point, is my point here. caitlin clark is a great player. she deserves the conversation and the height and the attention and the money. and at the same time, those are advantages that are not granted to others because there is a novelty, as well as the substance to it. it is an endless culture war story which everyone can get mad at everyone for a very long time. i think i feel also the resentment of the women who are already there, who are like oh, you think this college kid is going to come in and dominate us? and at the time it seemed you guys are being rude and resentful. and no, actually, it is very hard to move from college to the pros in any sport, even if you are, maybe, one of the best, the best college players ever. we are going to do this entirely differently. we are stronger, faster, more experienced. it is going to be hard for you. so slow down, don t think you re going to walk in and take over. i have nothing to say. remember how i said that i didn t think rich people should be talking about healthcare? i am pretty sure the economics reporter should not be talking about sports. but how is there so much confusion here? suddenly the wnba has all these new fans, and they are watching a game. a game, a rough game that is played year after year. but suddenly the first game they have ever seen, the player who they love, they are seeing get pushed around and they are going, i mean, there was a republican lawmaker who was complaining about this. where you are going this is just how the game is played. yeah, would they feel that way if it was angel reese who got knocked to the ground like that? no. she did get knocked to the ground like that, and nobody cared. this is the other part of the story. sports are supposed to be fueled by hatred. by bad blood. by feuding. this is stuff that is great. part of the reason why i want to buy stock, business metaphor, buy stock in the nba is because people are actually invested in it emotionally, and that comes from having bad blood. the thing that is dystopian, lizz, which movie you can appreciate on this level, too. i love dystopian. yes, we are talking not so much about the story, and more about how everybody hates everybody else because they see themselves in it. and for me it becomes a culture war story, and when i say it is an endless forever war of a culture war story i mean it is because, in sports, we are still arguing about whether lebron james or michael jordan is better. we have been doing that for decades upon decades. some precincts have been reporting that it is jordan. but the point is this is not a thing that can be solved this positively by play. it is going to be, again, about how you feel. and being a minority group in a majority female, black sport that outside of that sport affords you advantages that track with the money and the attention and the privilege, it is like it is fair to object to all of this and it is fair to also say you are making too much of it, because isn t she just a basketball player? and this i will also say. i think it is also fair to say that caitlin clark knows the game that caitlin clark is in. caitlin clark is not saying anything. it is like taylor swift, when the whole taylor swift beyonce feud was happening, they were both like there ain t no feud. this happens in this sport. i just feel like caitlin clark is not screaming. there is a whole lot of pundits speaking, there is a whole lot of things. and what you said is real. the pundit point is important. because race is always a part of sports, we don t always talk about it, but it is always there. and not just what happens on the floor, but also because the vast majority of people who cover sports are white, and male , and generally they are covering, especially in basketball, covering a lot of black people. so, in this situation you see the white girl who is supposed to be the new star, who is changing everything, and she gets thrown to the ground by somebody. the white pundits especially are like oh my god, how could you do that to her? but it is not just about race. it is a lot about the fact that these sports analysts are men. as i have seen black sports analysts this week go on and on, shocked by this saying these girls out there are being mean girls to each other. in the same sports analysts watch football year after year, they watch rookies get the crap kicked out of them going that is on the game is played. but when it comes to women doing it they are like look at these mean girls up in here. and that is bull nonsense. and i agree with you. overwhelmingly it is not that the rest of the wnba is jealous and deceiving like this is a high school cafeteria over caitlin clark. but there are a couple of people who feel that way. if you were to tell me watch this clip of angel reese celebrating caitlin clark falling to the ground i can t convince you objectively that she is not taking some enjoyment. now, does that rise to the level of jealousy and mean girl stuff? i am not going to categorize it as such. but i believe in that he and bad blood can coexist. it is just a we over characterize it as this is a sport where this should not happen, all sports are fueled by this. this is my observation. i want to know if this is true. is less contact countenanced in the wnba than the nba? is even more physical. we have to take a commercial. it s more physical? yes. does ladies know how to get it done. what i want to know is all this talk about the wnba, is it helping the game? we don t know yet. everybody is staying put. when we come back are nightcap returns with our mvps of the week. you do not want to miss it when the nightcap continues. e night kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. welcome to the wayborhood. and long live you. with wayfair, finding your style is fun. 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i wanted to go in a different direction. corey harris, who became viral out of driving to his resume hearing about driving with a suspended license. hold on, walk us through. because people are not going to know this name but everyone saw this video. he drove to his resume hearing with the judge on his suspended license hearing. and everybody is like oh my god, what an idiot. and surely he made some bad decisions. and it came out that he has actually never had a driver s license. but the end result of all of this is that he ended up in jail for a nonviolent offense. he was not even intending to hurt anyone, and it is easy to look at an individual and say you should have behaved differently. more important to look at the systems and the institutions and say you should behave differently. why are we using jail as a corrective for something like this? a nonviolent offense like this? we are over incarcerating nonviolent offenders way too much in this country. and this is a prime example of somebody who should not be in jail. there are many, many other ways to make the situation work. cindy eldon is the clerk for esmeralda county in nevada. and she is undergoing a withering criticism at a recall petition. she is a republican from supporter, and there are people in that county the believe that there was problems with the election because trump only one of the county of about 700 people by 82%. and this wonderful story in the new york times about this clerk who is being criticized by her neighbors and all the people she has known for life is a reminder that democracy is not a mountain. it is not a building. it exists because of local officials, and the reason why the 2020 election was not overturned is because of these actions by these local officials . these people, i think, democrats, republicans, non- partisans all our heroes that make democracy still exist in this country, and don t take it for granted. and i am on a bipartisan crusade of my own. good luck with that. red panda is somebody that you may know if you have seen a basketball game. she happens to be the greatest halftime performer of all time. red panda is the older chinese woman and immigrant to this country who gets on a unicycle, elevated many feet in the air, balances holes on her foot, and kicks them off to her head repeatedly. and the crusade i launch after watching her perform in game one of the nba finals yesterday is simply this. at the basketball hall of fame has never inducted a halftime performer. it should be red panda, and i want to address america, the world, on my various social media platforms i have a change.org petition. this is a real thing. all of you guys at this table need to sign it. i am begging you. we need to demonstrate that this person, read anda, is a part of history and should be remembered to me as such. right on. we are ready to sign it. my mvp, the families from the sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut. if you remember, talkshow host alex jones spread lie after lie of what happened in that elementary school in connecticut. the families of those children, those five and six-year-old children who were killed sued this man for defamation and they won nearly $1.5 billion in damages. but all sorts of cynics out there, me included, thought they are never going to see the money. a guy like this is going to move his assets, put them under family members names or friends, it will never happen. on thursday, yesterday, alex jones filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, basically liquidating all of his assets. why? for the families who face the most devastating loss and then had to hear the lies that he pushed. this was all made up, and these families have said the money is not the most important thing. the most important thing is that he stops doing this. that might not ever happen, but we are one step closer to these families having one ounce of justice, and i welcome it. thank you all for being here. it was a pleasure to have you all. have a great weekend. thank you, thank you, thank you. we are going to be right back. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping. in 99% of people over 50. it s lying dormant, waiting. and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you re not at risk for shingles? it s time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you re over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. hi. my name is kim and i am 41 years old. i ve been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i m still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you re on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow s feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. sup? 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[ engine revving ] oh yeah man, horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. [ engine revving ] oh now we re torquin ! - i love car puns! oh, i know. pppp-powershot! [ engine revving ] [ laughing ] the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [crowd cheering] it may not seem like it, but this, is actually progress in play. a shell energy 100% renewable electricity plan lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. we re moving forward with the houston dash. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress.
norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [crowd cheering] it may not seem like it, but this, is actually progress in play. a shell energy 100% renewable electricity plan lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. we re moving forward with the houston dash. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. is it for us. thank you so much for watching. remember, you can watch the nightcap again tomorrow night, saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc but for now, i am signing off and on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. tonight, we are following breaking news and the israel- hamas war. four israeli soldiers are now reunited with their families after being rescued alive in gaza by the israeli defense forces. all four were transferred to a hospital near tel aviv and are in good condition according to medical officials. the free hostages were kidnapped from the music festival on october 7th. that noa argamani,includes seen in this disturbing video being kidnapped and driven away on a motorcycle. it was an emotional reunion for him and his loved ones, including her father, whom she is seen hiding in this video. earlier, president biden reacted to the news during his trip to paris. before i begin my remarks i want to echo president macron s comments welcoming this hostages that were returned to their families and is real. we won t stop working until all the hostages come home and the cease-fire is reached. joining me now from tel aviv is nbc s raff sanchez. what more do we know about how and where this rescue operation was executed? reporter: this rescue operation took place in broad daylight in an area called dave surratt in central gaza. the israeli military says this was based on weeks of intelligence and that they simultaneously stormed two apartments in buildings around 200 yards away from each other. in one of those apartments, they found noa argamani on her own and in the other, they found those three male hostages who were also kidnapped from the october 7th music festival. when those israeli special forces had the hostages in their arms, they gave the agreed-upon code word over the radio. they said we have the diamonds, we have the diamonds. they got the hostages out in armored vehicles. noa argamani was flown back and israel by a helicopter and taken to the hospital here in the greater tel aviv area. i met her father on october 8th. the worst day of this man s life, his world crumbling, his only daughter kidnapped by hamas and i saw him again today exactly 8 months later, and you can only imagine the joy exuberant rating out of this man to have his child back. we had a chance to speak to some of his friends and listen to what they told us about how she is doing. how are you guys feeling? amazing. you saw noa? how is she doing? she s laughing, she is strong, it s amazing. reporter: now, this moment of joy for noa and her family is also tinged with sadness. noa s mother is dying of brain cancer. for these last eight months, it has been her final wish to see her daughter once again and tonight, that wish was fulfilled. noa s boyfriend was kidnapped alongside her on october 7th. he remains inside gaza is one of the 120 hostages still being held there and jonathan, i should tell you that while there are celebrations here in israel tonight, there is absolutely searing grief inside of gaza. the health ministry says at least 210 people were killed by israeli forces during this raid, many of them, women and children. our team on the ground inside gaza sat many dead and dying children being brought into that facility there, so it is a painful split screen tonight between the joy in israel and the grieving going on inside gaza. indeed. thank you. we have also learned that one member of the israeli police counterterrorism unit has died from injuries during the operation. we will be monitoring the story and bring you updates throughout the evening on msnbc. we are also monitoring this out of washington, d.c. where thousands of pro-palestinian demonstrators have gathered outside the white house to protest the united states support for israel amid its war in gaza. they formed a redline around the white house blocking traffic and calling for an arms embargo against israel. white house staff had increased security around the residence and put up protective fencing. now, we put turn to disturbing developments in the presidential election. ever since donald trump s guilty verdict last week, the four times indicted president is vowing revenge in dangerous ways. this week, the presumptive republican nominee for president told us exactly what he plans to do if he gets back in the white house. i think you have so much to do, you don t have time to get even. you only have time to get right. well, revenge does take time. i will say that and sometimes revenge can be justified. reporter: in your first term you did not arrest any of your political opponents but after your conviction last week, has your approach to that changed? the world is different now so when you asked me the question would we do it, i ll talk to you in about three weeks from now. wouldn t it be terrible to throw the president s wife and the former secretary of state think of it. the president s wife into jail. it s very possible that is going to have to happen to them. speaker mike johnson is not waiting to exact revenge on trump s behalf. this week, he laid out how he plans to weaponize the houses oversight powers to go after the federal investigations into trunk. we are working on a three- pronged approach through the appropriations process, through the legislative process, through bills that we will be advancing through committees and putting on the floor for passage and also through oversight. those things will be happening vigorously because we have to do that because the stakes are too high but, as scary as that is, the new york times reports that prominent republicans in and out of government art demanding quote, that elected republicans use every available instrument of power against democrats, including targeted investigations and prosecutions. take, for instance, former trump aid, election denier and soon to be prison inmates, steve bannon, who is urging the prosecution of democrats telling the new york times quote, there are dozens of ambitious backbencher state attorneys general and district attorneys who need to seize the day and on this moment in history. and, bannon is not the only one calling for revenge. i m talking about to it for tat. you just wait and it won t be hunter biden the next time. it s going to be joe biden. it could potentially still be barack obama. it could still potentially be hillary clinton. you have to get in the game, republicans. as every house committee controlled by republicans using its subpoena power in every way it needs to right now starting every investigation they need to right now? we need some brave district attorneys in the united states to step forward and take aggressive action. incredible rogues gallery there, but you notice, there is no mention of actual crimes committed. only enemies to be targeted in a tidal wave of vengeance and retribution. as the new york times knows, quote, the intensity of anger and open desire for using the criminal justice system against democrats after the verdict surpasses anything seen before in transnational tumultuous years in national politics six. what is different now is the range of republicans saying retaliation is necessary and who are no longer cloaking their intent with euphemisms. this is why, for the sake of our democracy, we need to take all of what you just heard, the snarling threats of revenge and the actions to come, very seriously. joining me now, olivia troy, former top aide to former vice president mike pence and anthony coley, former legal affairs analyst and former senior adviser to attorney general merrick garland. thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. i would love to get both of your reactions to trump suggesting that he s going to jail political opponents. i drama trump projects and says what he plans to do so i think we should take it very seriously but i don t think it s going to stop his political opponents. i think he means anyone who is ever crossed him. he will start with people like you in the media, people like me who have been outspoken critics and there will be actually no justification for it, exactly the point you made it the end of your opening. right now, what is the crime? what are you trying to investigate? but it doesn t matter to trump, because he will bend the rules and put enablers in place to go along with it. before you give your reaction, to what you just said, olivia, what is really scary to me is yes, he is saying all of this stuff and he will try to do all of this stuff and my fear is, i m not sure that the american people will rise up to try to stop him. that s exactly right. what you just said about putting enablers and places key. donald trump has learned one key fundamental truth about washington which is that people our policy. what we have seen here in d.c., they hire people, they surround themselves with people who share their vision and their values and thankfully and his first term, we had enough conservative republicans around him who resisted his very worst instincts, people who put their oath to the constitution, like olivia, ahead of their loyalty to him. they are not going to be that, those people, in the second term. he s going to surround himself in the white house with yes men and in the congress, just imagine if donald trump is president, he is more likely than not to have a republican majority in the congress. they are not going to do legitimate oversight. they re going to do rubberstamps and then we cannot look to the judiciary to save us. he has openly talked about eileen cannon, who i believe is deliberately slow walking this documents case. he talks about how we need more judges like her and i think your viewers have got to understand he has already appointed three justices to the supreme court. so, five of nine justices could be donald trump appointees and that should send a shiver down anyone s spine who loves our country and our constitution. yes, i m trying to remember who it was. oh, it was dan pfeiffer during a podcast interview for he made this exact point. if donald trump gets re-elected you can see thomas and one other justice, alito, retire and he would get at least two more but let s talk about speaker johnson since you invoked congress. speaker johnson, among the things he wants to do, he wants to theoretically allow trump to move state-level charges he is facing in georgia to federal court with the option to then issue a self pardon if convicted. that would totally upend the rule of law in this country. yes, and it is shameful to be someone who supported the republican party for so long to watch this, the party that used to stand for freedom, liberty, the rule of law. now we have completely flipped the script on it but that is a very serious thing in the fact that they are just openly discussing it and saying yeah, this is our plan, and it is for a pardon and they are all on board with it. it doesn t matter. this person committed a crime. there was an entire process that happened. it was a jury of his peers who decided on the conviction. these are cases going on in georgia where there are republicans testifying who are involved in this process, who saw the whole sedition happening firsthand so i think this is a disturbing on so many levels because it is the speaker of the house and he knows better. the other thing is, not for one second should anyone believe these people don t understand exactly what they are doing because they are intelligent and they know exactly calculated what the plan is. what really bothers me is the sense that these prosecutions were not deserved. this is politicization of the u.s. justice department. nothing could be further from the truth. i spent two years at the u.s. justice department. i saw the attorney general put in place people and processes to make sure that facts and law, not politics or anything else, would be the determining factor for investigations and prosecutions. you want more evidence that is what is happening now, look at the fact that right now, the u.s. justice department under joe biden is prosecuting joe biden s son. right, right. i love how joe biden s justice department is going after donald trump but they leave out that joe biden s justice department is not only going after joe biden s son, but also a prominent democratic senator. two prosecutions, so if joe biden has weaponize the justice department, he is doing it all wrong. i can t believe we just got started talking and it s all done. olivia, anthony, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. up next, hunter biden could take the stands next week as his trial on gun charges enters its next phase. i m officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon these days everyone is staring at screens, and watching their spending. good vision is more important than ever, but so is saving. that s why america s best includes a free eye exam when you buy two pairs of glasses for just $79.95. book an exam online today. switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? hunter biden s daughter, naomi, was the last person to take the stand in his firearms trial this week but she could end up being the first and only family member to testify in his defense. he is charged with three felony counts for allegedly lying about gun use. his daughter testified she did not see him using drugs around the time he bought the gun. earlier in the week, hunter biden sister-in-law and another former girlfriend appeared as witnesses for the prosecution under immunity agreements. they joined his ex-wife and testifying at length about his addiction to crack cocaine and his struggle to stay sober. the defense team is now deciding whether to call hunter himself to the stand on monday. in an interview with abc news, president biden said he will accept the verdict no matter what it is, and that he will not pardon his son if he is convicted. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquaid. she is cohost of the hashtag sisters-in-law podcast and is also the author of attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. thank you as always for coming to the saturday show. how risky would it be for hunter biden to testify on his own behalf? testifying on one s own behalf is probably the most difficult decision the defendant has to make and something that the lawyer will sit down with them and discuss the pros and cons. i think on the pro side, the defense here has been that hunter biden did not consider himself to be an addict at the time he filled out that form, that he may have been addicted before and after but that he wasn t, and the question asks, are you addicted to drugs and so if he were to testify, he could say i did not believe i was addicted to drugs at that time. that could be enough to create reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. on the other hand, when you testify, it puts into play anything that might tend to impeach your credibility, so any prior inconsistent statement, any bias that you might have, any bad things you ve ever done before come into play that would otherwise be not told to the jury, so that is a balance that the defendant really has to decide for himself based on the advice he gets from his lawyer. and barbara, if hunter decides not to testify, where does that leave his defense? it could be that they are done, and i think it leaves that were most cases really end, which is arguing that the prosecution has not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt so i think what the defense would argue is that although they don t really contest what happened, that yes, he did buy this gun, all the facts that happened, that he was using drugs and all the dates that have been introduced, he did not believe himself to be an addict at that time. proving a defendant s intent and knowledge and mind-set is always the hardest thing for a prosecutor, because you can t read another person s mind is so much of the testimony has been that you know, you didn t see him on that day. you didn t know if he was using on that day. there certainly has been testimony that he was using right up around that day so it requires a little bit of circumstantial evidence for the jury to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt but it seems like there is plenty of evidence there from which they could draw that inference. let s turn to donald trump s criminal convention. the judge sent a letter to both sides yesterday about a social media, reporting to preview the guilty verdict. how seriously do you take this potential claim of a jury week? not at all. it is interesting. many courts have these, which are unmoderated message boards where people can comment. they were set up with the idea that you could engage in good public discourse but of course there are all kinds of people out there who engage in mischief and worse, so this person has said oh, my cousin says a verdict is coming. i think the judge here, out of an abundance of caution, wanted to be up front with it and not try to hide it. certainly there would be people out there who would point to this as some sort of conspiracy that the fix was in, and so the judge has disclosed this to the parties so that if they want to explore this, they may do so. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg told the house judiciary committee he will come testify about the case but not until after trump s sentencing. should brag actually show up? would he be walking into a show trial whose sole purpose is to discredit him and his successful prosecution of the case? yes. i really worry about this idea of the accusations of the weaponization of criminal charges. donald trump that due process every step of the way in this case and i worry that there is a real separation of powers issue here to try to probe into the mind-set of what prosecutors are thinking when they bring a case, so that is a risk. certainly there is oversight that exists when there are federal prosecutors but there really isn t that kind of oversight over state court prosecutors. there could be [ inaudible ] to the extent that alvin bragg s office accepts federal funds so the thing to do would be going after this case is over. all right, we re going to have to leave it there. thank you, as always, for coming to the saturday show. up next, brace yourself. with three weeks left in the supreme court session, there are several decisions to be handed down that will be consequential, even life- changing for americans, from donald trump s immunity claims, reproductive rights and more. hi honey. ahhh.ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. 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[smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time. can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. preserving memories and helping to write new ones. we live our lives on our home s fabrics. and though we come and go, our odors stay. it s called odor transfer. left untreated, those odors get trapped inside fabrics and then release smells into your air. eww. you need febreze fabric refresher. its formula is proven to deliver. . long-lasting odor fighting power, so you can enjoy long-lasting freshness - even hours after spraying. the more everyone sprays. . the fresher your whole home stays. febreze fabric refresher. on medicare? have diabetes? when enjoying life s special moments are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you ll know your glucose and where it s headed no fingersticks needed. freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare supreme court justice clarence thomas has finally acknowledged the luxury getaways she accepted as gifts from a republican billionaire. he updated his financial disclosure forms to include two trips he took with millionaire donor harlan crow. they were estimated to be worth more than $500,000. thomases friendship with crow has fueled serious concerns about partisanship on the high court, especially with the consequential case is coming up this term. justices still have to release more than two dozen decisions over the next three weeks, touching on several issues from abortion access to trump s claim of presidential immunity. and then, there is reason to fear the worst from the court that overturned roe v. wade. recently justice sonia sotomayor shared this morning about the road ahead. there are days that i have come to my office after an announcement of a case and closed my door and cried. there have been those days, and there are likely to be more and there are moments, and yes, even i feel desperation. joining me now, ian mel heiser, author of the agenda, how a republican supreme court is reshaping. firsters traverses the united states. this is his claim of presidential immunity. i trump is already won this case. what the court is probably going to do is say president sometimes have immunity and send the case back down to a lower court to figure out if trump does in this case but none of that matters. the issue is are we going to have a trial before the election and they have already run out the clock so much that i think the answer will be no. okay, fisher versus the nine states, this is weather january 6 participants including trump can be charged with obstruction of an official proceeding. i was very surprised at how the oral argument went. there have been like 16 judges would ve heard this claim and only two of them have said that the statute should be read narrowly so these january 6 defendants essentially get off. there are about 1200 january 6 defendants including trump and only about 3000 of them have been charged under the issue here so it s a good chunk of people who participated in the insurrection. all right. the mifepristone case. how do you think the justices are going to rule on that? of the two abortion cases, that s the one i m most optimistic about. i think that they will leave it alone? that s correct. almost half of all abortions in the u.s. are performed with mifepristone and if they accept the lower coats reasoning to bennett so many other drugs would be banned. these guys don t like abortion but they don t want to ban antibiotics. that s the good news on abortion there. thank you for the help. don t worry, i ll spoil it in just a second. exactly the next one is whether federal law regulating hospitals trumps abortion bans when it comes to performing emergency abortions. i m worried about this case. there is a federal law that does not refer specifically to abortions but it says that if you go to an emergency room and you have a medical emergency they have to stabilize your health condition so if the appropriate treatment is on abortion, the law right now says you have a right to an abortion. i think based on the oral argument, they are likely to write that out of the statute or at least put some kind of limits on it so that people who need life-saving or health saving abortions will be able to get them anymore. now, here is the case that i don t think a lot of people even know about, and this is euphemistically known as the> case and this is whether to overturn the landmark supreme court ruling in the case that gave federal agencies leeway to interpret the law. sounds very dry, but explain why this case, to your mind, is the most important case decision. this is most hypertechnical but also the most important. there are scads of federal laws that delegate power to a federal agency. everything from how mac how much emissions come from power plants to who gets overtime pay is controlled by federal agencies. chevron is a case from the reagan era that said courts should generally let agencies do what they need to do and defer to them. what the court is likely to do here is essentially give itself a veto power over everything the agencies do, so it s not just at the huge transfer of power and a huge transfer of power from the democratic biden administration to a supreme court that has a 6-3 republican majority. to your point about regulating antibiotics, that would give them purview over the fda, right? potentially. the fda has its own statute, which is different than the regulatory regime that concerned chevron but what we seen from the supreme court overall, they ve been making up all these things with names like the major questions doctrine that lets them interfere with agency so. in the u.s. versus rohini case allowing domestic abusers to have access to firearms, will the supreme court make that happen, let that happen? i think they realize they screwed up. they handed down a big program decision that led to this decision. i think they re going to have to walk it back. you ve given us hope on two cases. thanks for coming to the show. still to come, president biden delivers a powerful speech in defense of democracy as he commemorates 80 years since americans landed on french shores to defeat the forces trying to destroy it. my political panel joins me next to talk about the message, and more. more. hello. my smile is back on point. easy. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation. or an unbearable itch. this painful blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. shingles could also lead to long term, debilitating nerve pain that can last for months or even years. if you re over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. ( ) and as you age, your risk of developing shingles increases. ( ) don t wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. sara federico: at st. jude, we don t care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it s a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. i still love to surf, snowboard, and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. it s hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today. today was an eventful day for president biden in paris. president macron honored them. the two presidents attended a wreath laying ceremony at lark to triumph in paris and a dinner at the presidential palace. earlier this week they attended ceremonies in normandy marking the 80th anniversary of the d- day invasion that turned the tide against germany and the second world war. in his remarks, president biden thanked veterans who were there, some of them 100 years old, thank them for their bravery and heroism and highlighted the importance of american democracy during another speech the next day at the pointe du hoc memorial. we talk about democracy. we often talk about the ideals of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, but what we don t talk about is how hard it is. american democracy asks the hardest of things, to believe, to be part of something bigger than ourselves, so democracy begins with each of us. begins when one person decides there s something more important than themselves. joining me now, former congressman david jolly and former adviser for [ inaudible ] former campaign. welcome. david, i m going to start with you. talk about the importance of president biden s tribute to american soldiers for d-day. that was really a remarkable moment for an american president at pointe du hoc, recognizing the valor and courage of americans and servicemembers from around the globe that fought for freedom. doing so in a spot that was immediately recognizable and the reason it was so powerful was not just joe biden and his words. it fit perfectly as he thousand political message about the soul of america and the importance of freedom in the west but i could not help but contrast that with pictures of donald trump at helsinki where he sided with russia, where he questioned our own democracy and then you bring in the events of january 6, the contrast between what joe biden did right there as an american president recognizing freedom on the world stage but speaking to every american voter about the importance of their freedom right here at home that is under threat. the contrast between that and donald trump made for that moment to be that much more remarkable. you know, i would love to get your thoughts on the president s speech and whether it resonates with the voters back at home but i have to say, watching those veterans, particularly the african- american veterans who were there, just how poignant that moment was for them. i mean, he showed strength. he showed what america should look like is a global leader, something that symbolizes democracy. i do think it recognize resonates with the segment of american voters, those who understand the history. the fighter biden campaign has a devoted to grow up with barack obama, donald trump, they don t connect with this is much as older voters do. however, showing his force there, showing his strength there just a post with how donald trump looks with world leaders, i think that is going to play well for president biden here as we get closer to election day. nbc news reports that donald trump has narrowed the list this week between marco rubio, tim scott, and jd vance of ohio. all of them were critical of trump at one point or another, but what is trump looking for in a vice president this time around? someone to say yes, and someone to not detract from his ticket or in the case of bergen, someone who could write a really big check to support tom s campaign and what bergen has going for him as we could go all the way to november for the nation knows who this guy is. maybe he is a very nice guy. we saw him try to be somewhat reasonable during the primary. we know he has high marks as governor but donald trump is looking for somebody to fall in line. marco rubio has long been my dark house horse. he s now moved up. he s in the final four because he played the politics of donald trump right. he didn t relitigate his flip- flop for the past eight years, he just flopped. he reminds nikki haley voters that there are people like nikki haley still supporting donald trump but the vice president is not going to change. the vice presidential nominee is not going to change donald trump s behavior nor the parties platform. what the country should hope for is somebody capable of governing should donald trump end up not being able to serve. so, alencia, of those four people , who do you think he s going to pick? it s a crap shoot however, i think he might pick someone like tim scott given that it gets diversity on the ticket. in air quotes. they ve been trying to run black candidates in certain areas. republicans are trying to get away from being called the party full of white supremacists and racists, so tim scott falls in line and he happens to be a black man. maybe. i heard there s an awesome new book written by jonathan capehart that s about to drop. the wager will be the new k part book that it s not tim scott. well, that looks not coming out until later in the year, knock on wood. am excited about it. thank you very much. that s very nice of you. in the few seconds we have lester left, i will say the one thing we know about donald trump as he is biggest on appearances. he gave somebody the department of defense secretary job because he looked the part and so of those four characters we saw before, governor bergen looks the part to donald trump s mind, that is. in the time i spent in his head. former congressman david jolly, alencia johnson thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. up next, the trump campaign is making a big play for black voters but given the former president s rhetoric and disrespect for topline officials, i m not buying it. charles coleman junior joins me after the break to discuss. jo after the break to discuss. good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there s no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it s two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don t receive cabenuva if you re allergic to its ingredients or if you re taking certain medicines which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue. and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. donald trump and his campaign are making a very public play for the black vote. even vice presidential hopeful tim scott, the african-american senator from south carolina, the only black republican in the chamber, has started a political action committee to target minority voters and good for them. they should ask for our vote, but scott told the ap quote, much to the chagrin of many folks, there is no doubt that african-american men are wide open for a political shift of partisanship. i don t know about all that. but, black voters all voters should be aware that while they are smiling and black men s faces, trump and his campaign are denigrating black men in plain sight. for instance, michael tyler is the communications director for the biden-harris s re-election campaign. quentin fox is the principal deputy campaign manager. these two black men you see on the screen of the most senior african-americans on the campaign, role models and yet, the trump campaign and the rnc continually refer to these two black men as quote, junior staffers, or junior biden campaign spokesman. some of you might think, what s the big deal, it s just a title. when you re african-american you learn quickly the ways in which her stature, prominence or authority are undermined in the eyes of white people, and that is exactly what trump and his campaign are doing, but we shouldn t be surprised. trump is running his campaign the way he has lived his life. going after black men. trump did it in the 1980s when he went after the central park five, demanding they get the death penalty for a crime they didn t commit even after dna evidence exonerated them. he did it in 2004 when jackson was a finalist on the apprentice reportedly sign quote, what america aye a blank winning? n word. the spokesperson from the trump campaign has denied the story calling it completely fabricated but trumps disrespect for black men was evident when president obama was in the white house. trump actively undermined obama s legitimacy by promoting the racist brother lie that he was not born in hawaii, but can you. now, he s doing it to quentin foltz and michael tyler and i m here to call it out. don t ask for our votes in one breath then denigrate someone who looks like us in the next. but, let s be real. this is not about getting our votes. it s about setting up a permission structure for white voters to cast a ballot for him. after all, how can he be racist if he s asking for their vote, right? wrong. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst charles coleman junior, civil rights attorney and host of the charles coleman podcast. charles, i wanted you to be with me in the segment specifically because of that pin you where every day and every show. what does that pin say? yes, this is my black brilliance pen and i m so glad you asked about because for me as a black man who is a professional who walks in different spaces that in many cases, i find myself being the only one of many. i am someone who understands the importance of affirming myself and my brilliance because as is the case with quentin and michael, i can expect that even as i have done the work, even as i have gotten the title, is an as we have ascended through the ranks that other people are going to affirm it as well so it s a soft affirmation and an affirmation for people like you, as well, who find themselves trying to make their way in worlds that are often not friendly to us. what you say to that question saying how could donald trump be racist, you know, if he s going for their votes? why is that that s not good enough. this is a very nuanced question because i think what people have to understand when they re talking about black men and their voting patterns, particularly as it relates to the selection, the biden campaign is battling two major campaigns. the first one is misinformation. there are a lot of voters who are misinformed or underinformed about the progress that administration has made on their accomplishments and in some cases, they ve been told wrong information. the other thing they are battling, is regardless what it is you re saying, people are going to vote how they feel and that s why it s even more important that outreach occur on a proactive level. if you are talking about, for example, a record low and unemployment of black men but that low is still higher than the national average and higher than other white men, then it still feels like your last. it looks do we have charles? let me buffer for a second. there you go. real quick, finish the last part of your answer, charles. what i was saying is that it is something the biden campaign has to be aware of, regardless of the notion of racism in terms of how donald trump tries to siphon off voters from a pretty solid democratic block. that is an important point people have to understand. people are going to vote how they feel more than anything else. and i hope people feel that they should not vote for somebody who says vote for me, well you know, around the corner is denigrating people who look just like them because you are setting yourself up for failure. charles coleman junior, thank you very much. sorry the conversation was so quick. i hope to see you soon. or of the saturday show on msnbc after a break. msnbc after a break. 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100%. judy s family says they can finally move on with their lives. there is one thing that brings them peace. you are religious. does that give you any comfort to know your mom and dad are now together? they are in a better place than we are. what would you say to judy? i will tell her that i love her and i would give her the biggest hug. that is all for this edition of dateline. thank you for watching. ank you this sunday edition of morning joe weekend. it was another fast-moving news week. here are more of the conversations you ekmight have missed. donald trump and his allies are ratcheting up their calls for revenge against democrats in response to trump s conviction in his new york city criminal trial. some examples. in a fox news interview on friday, former white house advisor stephen miller called le on republican secretary of state and attorneys general to quote, get in the game and use every facet of power to go toe to toe with democrats. florida senator marco rubio who is reportedly in the mix to be trump s running mate which would make sense given his behavior wrote on social media quote, it s time to fight fire with fire. in response to a new york times piece about recent calls for refry abuse, former white house chief strategist steve bannon echoed stephen miller telling the paper quote, there are dozens of ambitious backbencher state attorneys general and ne district attorneys who need to seize the day and own this moment in history. then there is trump himself. in s an interview earlier this week he suggested hillary clinton be jailed in response to his guilty verdict. and here s what he said at his florida home yesterday in a fox news interview last night with sean hannity where you see hannity trying to get him to the right answer but no. take a listen. you can t gag a nominee. can you imagine you re running for office and you gag. you re not allowed to talk. when that happens we are no longer a democracy. and we re not going to let that happen. and i know a lot of republicans who want retribution. they want to do that we re going to see what happens. people are claiming you want retribution. people are claiming you want u what has happened to you done to democrats. would you ondo that ever? look, what s happened to me has never happened in this country before. and it has to stop because wait a minute, i want to hear that again. it has to stop. we re not going to have a country. if you re elected awhat doe that mean? define that. what i ve gone through nobody s ever gone through. i m a very legitimate person. i built a great business. focus on those that want people to believe that you want retribution. that you will use the system of justice to go after your political enemies. number one, they re wrong. it onhas to stop. otherwise we re not going to have a country. look, when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them. it s easy because it s joe biden and you see all the criminality. will you pledge to restore equal justice? equal application of our laws? end this practice of weaponnization? is that a promise? you have to do it. but it s awful. look, i know you want i m asking. i don t want to look naive. what they ve done to the republican party, they want to arrest on no crime. i will do everything in my power not to let, but this tremendous criminality here. what they re doing to me if it s going to continue we re really not going to have much of a country left. okay, willie. help me out here. first of all, no criminality. this was not biden s justice department in the criminal trial in new york city. it was a yjury of donald trump peers, 12 people and alternates. just to fact check him right there. but also hannity, mr. softball, setting him up saying come on, come on, you wouldn t actually have retribution. you don t mean that. of course he s like yes, i do. just like what the documents. when hannity was like come on, you didn t actually take the documents. donald trump is kenot messing around. he promises retribution and as he even told hannity when hannity gave him a chance to semi cover it he will serve it up. so, with that, i mean i m not sure what more people need to know given a lot of things donald trump has promise have had come to pass. i m not smiling about the substance of what the president said, i m smiling with what you put your finger on which is this entire genre of interview where sean hannity embeds the answer into his question and tries to lead donald. i wish my oral exams in high school and college were like that where the teacher would just nod along and give you the answer. that s the way they do it. he said donald trump in the remarks we played before that clip he said a malot of people are saying they re going to want retribution. so he likes to separate himself but obviously he means himself and obviously sending cues to others about what should happen. again, he was charged, he was tried, he was convicted by a jury of his peers in new york. the fact that he took classified documents back to his beach club is not some imagined conspiracy against him. he did. hing we ll see what happens in that trial as it moves forward. he wants retribution against people, the justice department, the fbi who are actually bringing him to justice on things that he did or is alleged to have done. let s bring to the conversation yeah. one thing before we get to our guests. it s so interesting to me that n he says this has never happened before and that s why something needs to be done. in every case, well, i will say in the most clear cases because obviously we have to wait for the law to play out. but in the case of the documents you see the pictures. he says he took them. he says they re his. he admits to the crime. in the case of the hush money. criminal trial where 34 felony counts against donald trump came up guilty, there was evidence presented in court that backed it up. so yes, yes, mr. president, former president trump, this hasn t happened before. there hasn t been a former president who had sex with a porn star while his wife was pregnant and then years later before a campaign was to get into full swing paid off through hush money through a fixture breaking campaign finance laws and having fraudulent business records. i mean that is not happened before. he s right, otit hasn t happene before. but it s unfortunately what happened to him because of his own actions. right. and change the suspect from subject to some imagined conspiracy that suggests the government is out to get him. let s bring in ceo of the massina group jim massina. and ran obama s 2012 reelection campaign 20successfully, of course. jim, great to see you. you often are the guy who comes in and sort of tries to calm the nerves a bit of democrats b when they get panicky. not in some polly anish way, but looking at data, looking at normals. let s talk about the fundraising that scared a lot of democrats after donald trump was convicted last week on 34 felony counts. raised a boatload of money. put that into some perspective though as compared to how the biden campaign is doing. yeah, if you look at the overall numbers biden continues to have a very healthy fundraising lead. has way more money in eathe ban i know this sounds geeky, but the truth is joe biden s money is all small donors whereas donald trump s money is from m big donors who are giving to his super pacs. that ad buying later in the campaign is more expensive. they can t get the lowest unit rate. most importantly, the one thing you can t make more of in a presidential election is time. we re 152 days out and the biden campaign has over 150 field offices staffed with paid staffers in the battleground states. donald trump has zero. so every day these people are talking to voters both their own base and these swing voters and you just can t replicate that with money. we always knew that trump was going to catch up weafter he go the nomination. he clearly had an outstanding day after his criminal conviction. it s a little cynical they raised a bunch of money after he was found guilty of 34 felony counts. it y is what it is. overall the biden campaign is doing what they need to do which is build a massive army in these battleground states. the biden campaign looking forward to that first debate as a moment to change fra joke tour of the race. we re seeing polls shift a little bit towards the president. let s owget you to weight in yesterday. this wall street journal story about the president s age. we can set aside the marriage of the journalism. there were flaws in the story we covered at length yesterday. polls suggest some americans think the president is too old for office. we know donald trump just a couple years younger. if you were still in the white house, what would your communication strategy be to simply manage the issue. fair or not it s out there. how would you suggest the white house and campaign handle it? by doing exactly what they re doing. getting him out there as much e as they can. about getting an early debate. you re exactly right. it is an issue. people have questions about it. we all remember at the state of the union he did a master performance and looked on top of his game and the polls rose then. this debate moment is really, really big for them. i can t believe donald trump is letting them have it. people expect joe biden to not be as good as donald trump. trump has set all the expectations to the top activity moon. he s this great or tore. he s this great guy. joe s sleepy joe, et cetera. joe biden goes in there and has a good debate and it s going to significantly make people think about their perceptions of this race. i think it ll be a very big moment and i think biden was very smart to ask for a debate as early as he could get it. we ll be right back with much more morning joe. ore morn. sup? -who are you? i m your inner child. get in. listen. 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[vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. there is actually axios has reporting this morning quoting steve bannon. take it for what it s worth. a voice of a maga world saying they re going to go after alvin bragg first to try to put him in jail. a lot of people go oh, it s donald trump popping off. it s what he does. he s calling in to newsmax. you have to take this stuff seriously given not only who he is but who he has surrounded himself with. we ve learned when he make as threat like this we have to take it seriously. and what s different here, there s been republican anger for years now. they claim the witchhunts against donald trump. what s different about this verdict is how out in the open it is. there s no euphemisms here. there s no let s be clever. they re saying we re going to go after those who have done this to donald trump. yes, steve bannon talking about alvin bragg. we have speaker johnson. the house speaker saying they re going to look at the department of justice and try to defund a lot of what it can do as payback for the biden doj going after donald trump. now of course there s a limit to what they can actually do. the threat is still there. it erodes americans faith in our institutions. this has been one of the most dominant themes of the trump era is going after, perceiving whether it s the fbi or the media and they have singled out those of us there as well as targets for retribution. and trying to get americans to say hey, look, they re not on our side. they re for them and really vilify everyone and it s putting us in a dangerous place. the most dominant aspect, i would suggest. not one of. the most dominant aspect. and you know, largely this is my personal view now. but at some point americans have to ask themselves what kind of a country do we want. in this particular day it s almost sack religious to be talking about donald trump said and what he means and what he s going to do. we just spoke to a man who just finished a book on eisenhower talking about the night before d-day when general eisenhower went through the 101st airborne shaking hands and he knew every other hand he shook was a young 18, 19 or 20-year-old paratrooper who was going to die within 12 hours on the beaches in normandy. we were going to lose a young american. why were they going? they were going to fight for democracy. all these years later, 80 years later, democracy is again in peril. that s a fact. that s a fact. listening to donald trump, that s a fact we have to live with. that s a fact that americans are going to have to make up their minds about. what kind after country do we want going forward? we may hear some of that theme from president biden tomorrow at normandy when he delivers the address. he ll be there all week as you reported yesterday. he ll be at bella woods later in the week the world war i site. talking about the young men who frankly saved the world in those days, weeks and months but also about bringing it to today and the threats of democracy here. it s hard not to be almost emotional thinking about this scene with eisenhower. we ll hear from the president several times this week. his remarks tomorrow will be relatively brief. it s the next day, the friday where he goes where ronald reagan delivered his famous speech. talking about yes, the sacrifices of 80 years ago that helped save the world. but connecting it to today. the battle we re seeing in ukraine. also just the need to affirm and rebuild democracies across the globe. i m told the odds are against him invoking donald trump by name. trump will shadow this. he will draw an implicit contrast to the future that trump will bring versus the one that he would. one with allies. one with defending democracy. we know donald trump will take a different approach to the ukraine war working to be returned to office. he almost pulled autoof nato on the eve of going to helsinki. we ll hear that in grand terms from president biden in what aides tell me will be one of the most important speeches he delivers this year. one that will not on the surface be a campaign speech. yeah. we just talk about the choices. mike talking about the choices. we hear what he said about hillary clinton. we re talking about nato. donald trump trying to undermine nato. said he wanted to undermine nato. said a couple months ago he encouraged vladimir putin to invade nato countries if they didn t have sort of defense structure that he wants them to have. of course he talked about putting hillary clinton in jail. throwing political opponents in jail. his people have talked about throwing us in jail. throwing people that run this show in jail. they ve talked about throwing media companies in jail that are insufficiently loyal. he talks about executing chairmans of the joint chiefs of staff who are insufficiently politically loyal to him. he talks about terminating the constitution. he talks about using seal team six to execute political opponents and says that he would be immune from that. he had his lawyers argue that in court. go through all of it and it is extraordinary. it s extraordinary that this man is talking like an autocrat. talking like putin and that right now this race is too close to call. i think it s really worth pointing out that the difference between trump in 2020 and trump in 2024 and trump in 2016 is this time around his team and campaign are much more focused on how they would do exactly the kinds of things you ve spoken about. they ve drawn up the policy papers. they ve dug in to the workings of the american government to see how they could effectively take control of the fcc. of the doj. use the irs against political opponents of theirs. they ve been very honest about the idea of using this second administration for retribution against those people who have counted donald trump. it s sometimes easy with donald trump because we hear so many things that are out of the norm they go well, it s just another thing donald trump says. behind donald trump in 2024 is a whole infrastructure of people putting in place the plans to follow up with the kinds of things that donald trump is saying out on the campaign trail. they didn t manage to do much of it in 2016 because they weren t prepared. this time around they re making sure they are prepared. so the group republican voters against trump is launching a new billboard ad campaign looking to persuade moderate republicans and republican leaning voters in four swing states. the billboards feature former trump voters who now say they won t vote for him in the wake of his conviction last week in his new york city criminal trial. let s bring in the executive director of republican voters against trump sarah longwell. she s also a publisher and host of the focus group podcast. thank you so much for joining us. to tell us more about this campaign and what you re hearing from republican voters. question after the conviction, the political question is will voters care? and from our perspective you have to help make them care. the republicans are out there right now and they are building their own narrative. building their own echo chamber. they are all singing from the same song sheet that this was rigged, that we have a two tier justice system. we have to go on offense right now and make sure voters understand how unique, how historically unique in a desperately dark way it is to have a convicted felon running for president. so our program republican voters against trump, it hick hinges on a key theory which is you need credible messengers to speak to these vote percent. we have hundreds of people who voted for trump in the past, many voted for him twice who are explaining and there s testimonials all over our website explaining why they won t vote for trump again. but after the conviction we wanted to make sure that it stuck with people. we have watched donald trump extraordinary things have happened. like his own vice president not endorsing him. and yet it kind of just rolls off voters minds. trump s been around for a long time. we have two functional incumbents and that create as dynamic where voters aren t as tuned in in ways they might have. you have to go on offense. you have to have strong affirmative messaging to make sure things stick in the mind of voters. you can t count on the idea that voters hear conviction and walk away. you have to help them understand why this is so extraordinary. why what he defense wrong and why he s too dangerous to be in the white house. to that point about the difficulty in making things stick to trump. we live in a world where it seems like everyone s attention span is a few fleeting moments. so it s not just there s a conviction. conviction happened at the end of may. here we are the first few days of june. we re still five months to the election. how do you get it to resinate to stay in the forefront of voters minds not just now but as they head into the ballot box? this is one of the ways democrats have to figure out how they re going to do their messaging strategy. i think that oftentimes they get really fractured around messaging and have a difficult time going on offense as opposed to playing defense. so part of this is to make sure that acknowledging donald trump s conviction is a regular feature in the way that democrats are talking about him. and not just joe biden. joe biden as a messenger has a particular role i think to explain to the country what he s going to do over the next four years. but democrats need an army of surrogates who are out there making an affirmative case. going on offense. going on attack against donald trump. making sure the countriens understands. and that he s a been convicted of sexual assault and that he s been convicted for, you know, the things he did with the trump org and reminding people of january 6th. it is really, this is going to be a choice about who is the the lesser of two evils and you have to have voters understand trump is the greater of evils. liable of sexual abuse, defamation and massive fraud. and then convicted felon who is openly hell bent on revenge. that s what voters have to consider. sarah longwell. thank you for being on this morning. coming up, new reporting on how closely europe is watching the upcoming u.s. election. we ll be right back. l be right. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i ll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. 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( ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. november s presidential election has implications well beyond our country s borders. in a new piece entitled what europe fears details how european leaders and nato are preparing for the potential reelection of donald trump and joining us now the author of that piece staff writer at the atlantic mckay coppins. tell us what these leaders are saying. i was struck by two things. they re watching the u.s. election very closely. the state secretary in germany told me that in a year when billions of people around the world will have the opportunity to vote the one election everyone in europe cares about and is paying attention to is the american presidential election. the other thing that struck me is almost every official i spoke to believed that donald trump was going to win again. and they say that with a sense of dread in some cases bordering on panic. the word that i heard most often in these interviews was existential. if donald trump comes back, we made it through the first trump term. and it took a toll on the transatlantic relationship. but they made it through. they said if he comes back given what he s been saying about nato, given what he s been saying about russia, the war in ukraine, they re really afraid that it will be the end of nato and the beginning of a new stage of russian aggression that europe frankly isn t prepared for without america s support. so mckay, let s dive into that more. there s been from president macron of france this effort to make europe less dependent on the u.s. in terms of our military and financial strength. what other steps are he and his fellow european leaders taking to try to if you will trump proof what they re doing right now ahead of his possible return? yeah, there have been a number of efforts recently proposed. one of them as you mentioned is, you know, developing defense autonomy in europe in a way that would potentially channel funds away from nato which really does rely on america and toward the european defense alliance. there s been talk of taking the responsibility for arming ukraine, literal logistical responsibility out of america s hands and putting that in nato s hands because they don t know if a future trump administration would abandon the war or not. really the biggest change has been that a lot of european allies are spending a lot more now on their own defense. and this is one thing that, you know, trump takes credit for and i have to say a lot of the european officials i spoke to grudgingly gave him some credit for. they said trump by kind of being so vociferous about this issue that european allies aren t spending enough on defense has sort of bullied a lot of these countries into spending more, but it s come at a cost. and that cost is that these european countries while they are now spending more on collective defense, contributing more to nato, also don t trust america as a long term ally the way they have for the last 75 years. when america becomes an unpredictable power or a transactional power, that changes the entire global order in ways that i don t think we can predict right now. sure does. and we heard back in i think it was 2018, 2019 angela merkel saying we can no longer depend on the united states basically with trump because he s so erratic. we ll have to defend ourselves. it s something macron said as well. if donald trump s making them spend more money on defense because they re spending more money on defense because they know they can t count on the united states in their minds if donald trump is president of the united states. mckay writes this also, that almost every official i spoke with believed that trump is going to win. i hear that an awful lot from europe and i hear from across the world. i think claire, we should probably tell our friends not to bet too many euros or pounds on that fact because what you see on tv may not be what ends up happening at the voting booths for swing voters in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. yeah, those three states particularly where really biden has never been more than a point or two behind and in polls has been ahead. those three states are incredibly important. mckay, i wanted to ask you about what s going on in europe domestically in terms of their politics. we have seen in the united states populism and anti- immigration that has really roiled our politics here. what is happening in that front in europe? it looks from a distance that they re having some of the same issues internally within the conservative parties there. the antiimmigration, the populism. is that something that europe is also worried about? oh, no question. the fear of trump s return in europe is of a piece with the fear of a broader rise of right wing populism and nationalism. we ve seen it in the uk. italy. in germany the afd party. the far right party. there was one recent poll that found 25% of germans now identify with that party. and that s a pretty extreme party. so there s no question that throughout western democracies and really in europe especially we have seen a lot of the same forces that contributed to trump s rise. in some ways the europeans understand trump through that prism. they re saying, you know, we get it, we have our own issues here. if some of our allies have elected leaders like donald trump. it s different when it happens in america. america is not only the lynch pin of the nato alliance. it is in a lot of ways seen as kind of the big brother. european countries rely on america for security, they rely on it for leadership. they rely on america to set an example to the world for what a well functioning western democracy should look like. a lot of the anxiety about this election in europe stems from the fact that they re seeing this chaos in american democracy and wondering if the city on a hill can still be looked to as an example. and that causes a lot of alarm among our friends in europe. the new piece is online now for the atlantic. staff writer mckay coppins, thank you for writing the piece and being on the show this morning. next, former capitol police officer harry dunn will be here to talk about why he is starting a new pac to support candidates running against pro- trump republicans. trump republicans. slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell 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you leave it all on the field. i m harry dunn and on january 6th the good guys won. they fellow officers and i fought as a team. we had each other s back. and we didn t do it for one person or one president. we did it for our country. to make sure everyone s vote counted. that s what democracy is. that no one person s voice is greater than another. when i ran for congress, hundreds of thousands of regular people stood with me and we broke records in fundraising. but our system still allows the wealthiest americans and their corrupt super pacs to support insurrectionsists and drown out our voices. our team has got to change that. we need to support candidates committed to getting money out of politics and defending our democracy from donald trump and maga extremists. nobody said it would be easy, but for our country, fur our team, we can t stop now. and former u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn joins us now. he s the author of the recent book standing my ground. thanks for being with us again this morning. you ran for congress in the state of maryland. fell a little short l but did have some money leftover from that campaign. tell us more about what you plan to do with it. thanks for having me on. always good to be on with you all. we did fall short, but the reason why i ran was to do everything i can to continue to fight for democracy. to fight to preserve our constitution. and to fight to stop maga extremists. at the very top of the ticket, donald trump. we did raise millions of dollars in a very short period of time and what that told me is that a lot of people across the country that message of our democracy, the threat of losing it. the threat of this being our potential last free and fair election resinates with a lot of people. it s at the top of peoples minds. what we ll do is continue to use that momentum to continue to go across the country. up and down the ballot. and elect democrats and stop maga republicans. also fight to continue to get big corporate money out of politics. and support those candidates that really want to do that. so harry, when you re out there, when you re out there running for congress and meeting a lot of people and talking to a lot of people. that aspect that you just mentioned the threat to democracy. when you would talk to people about the threat to democracy, how many of the people you spoke to thought it was like real? that it could happen? as opposed to no, it worries a lot of people. it worries a lot of people. because like i say, a lot of the issues that we talk about. common sense gun reform, lowering inflation. all of those things as important as they are, if we have a dictator in the white house, a dictator over democracy, what is the purpose? those issues really don t matter because the dictator gets what he wants. everybody is definitely worried. even people that voted against me tell me they are worried about our democracy. so i think it is very front and center with a lot of people. being out here on the campaign trail for president biden i m in pennsylvania right now, one of the things people are definitely worried about. it resinates with people and as people talked about, he s talking about retribution and imprisoning his political opponents. and people are really worried about that. next, actor bill pullman on his new life time movie that was ripped from the headlines as he plays alex murdaugh who was found guilty of murdering his wife and son. morning joe weekends will be right back. right back. of finding psoriasis can t filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it s like the feeling of finding you re so ready for your close-up. or finding you don t have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don t take if you re 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without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. dad is a legend. and his legendary moves might be passed down to you. ancestrydna can show you which traits were inherited, where they came from, and who he shares them with. but get movin , this sale is only for a limited time. this is alex murdaugh. alex was a loving father to paul. and the loving husband of maggie. alex murdaugh is innocent of all these crimes. a lifetime original movie. i had the embarrassment of bouncing a check. don t worry. we re making plenty of money. ripped from the headlines. you don t have a problem? not at all. based on a true story. how are we going to explain this? i ll think of something. tell me what you ve been keeping from me. i have never kept anything from you. look at the lifetime original murdaugh murders. the movie the two part miniseries follows the down fall of the murdaugh family. the heart of the family s demise alex murdaugh. once a successful lawyer from a team with a rich history in south carolina, his trial made headlines last year when he was convicted of murdering his wife and his son and stealing millions from his legal clients while blaming an addiction to painkillers for his crimes. join us now, bill pull nba who plays alex murdaugh. good to see you. you re kind of like i was with this trial which i didn t really know a ton about it and then i tuned in late and kind of couldn t get enough of it. so when you first heard about this role what were your impressions of this guy? yeah, i realized everybody else in the world in america knew about it. i think i, you know, i didn t know if i was going to do it. kind of had to be a fast decision. but my first thing was i don t know if i want. i don t know anything about it. then you start watching something and they ve got body cam and dash cam and of course the courtroom scene. so much there. and then i realized but as i first started into it i was nauseous. i was nauseated. i thought i can t do this part. then it tripped over into i m excited to do this part. that s what i was going to ask you at some point as an actor as repulsive as the man is there s something about getting into the character and playing it that s rich for you professionally, i think. yes, yes. really you re going to enter into you ve got to put on armor about your morality and everything else and you become, you know, a jedi knight of denial which we have a few of those these days. we do. seems to be going around. i remember talking to a friend connie who said yeah, that murdaugh guy it s like old satan looked at him and went whoa, dude. like you re bad. how did you prepare for the role? not just someone who satan would say that about but someone who is so timely. who is alive. who their developments in the case as we speak. how much did you study him? how do you decide on your performance? there s a lot to look at. you can go lateral, long time. researching and looking. i had to get moving pretty quick because production thing was so fast. i think there s certain amount of things you can make yourself similar to and then because there s other things you re just doing your own interpretation. so you re trying to, you know, channel those aspects as they would occur to you rather than just mimicking him. it was also really heard because he lost a lot of weight and there were those issues and i had to go with my weight and we don t have a lot of time to shoot this movie. you capture him well. let s take a look at another clip where alex confronts his son paul about the boating accident that killed his friend. besides a dead girl and our financial ruin. stop. i am not finished. talk to me. talk to me. she was my friend. huh? i didn t mean for it to happen. i didn t mean to hurt anyone. the hurt you cause that night hasn t even yet been felt. i m ashamed. and embarrassed of you. get out of my sight. in addition to having to capture the darkness of the man you have to capture a southern accent too, bill. if you get it wrong people will let you know. and there s a lot of different accents. south carolina, but even the low country they call it. there s a lot of different accents. you can always go check it out. tough scene. it s a tough scene. oh my god. they would let for years and years i did of pulling it off. could see him just on the stand his friends saying to say i had no idea but i do know he did it. they know he was capable of it and all caught up to him. both installments are streaming now on amazon prime video, as well as on my lifetime.com. bill pullman, great to have you with us this morning. great to be here. we ll get you back into the new york city theater. putting out a call to directors. this man. don t go away. we have a second hour of morning joe on this sunday morning. coming up right after the break. after the break. chevy trucks advanced camera 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(fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we re clearly different. welcome back to morning joe weekend. it is now 7:00 a.m. this sunday morning. here s more of the stories we covered this week. writing about president biden s visit to normandy this week in your latest column for the washington post , with some reflections on history, not just the invasion in normandy on d-day 80 years ago but where america was on the precipice of world war ii in terms of the division we saw in this country, not unlike what we are seeing here now. we look back at world war ii and the d-day invasion and we see this incredible national unity. everyone was polling in the same direction in this great struggle that engulfed the entire world and american society was transformed and everyone had to pitch in and there was national purpose and national unity and we forget that in the years before the war, our country arguably was as divided as it is now. it was divided over a number of things. one way it was divided was racially segregated. that continued even during the war. the units that went ashore at d- day were all white and one all- black unit that morning. of course, once they got on the beaches, they were, there was no color and i write about one soldier, a medic in the one black battalion that landed that morning. there were others who came later. he was wounded as he landed with german shrapnel, pretty serious wounds but he was well enough to set up a medical aid station on the beach and he stood there and he treated the wounded four 30 hours before he collapsed and had to be taken to a hospital ship. he survived the war, came home to a racially divided nation and was a second-class citizen until the civil rights movement triumphed and he died in 2005. it was just this week awarded posthumously the second highest honor in the army. that wasn t the only division. there were bitter divisions about whether the united states should get involved in the war. isolationism, you think it is something no, isolationism was a major strain in our politics. there were bitter divisions over franklin d roosevelt s new deal policies, which were being described as totalitarianism and communism and socialism. the rhetoric we hear now, we have heard before. the difference is there cannot be another world war ii unite us. we can t have another one of those after hiroshima and nagasaki. we simply cannot have a world war like world war ii. so, we are going to have to find a different way to get past these divisions that beset us now. we have a barely functional political system but that is what we ve got and we are going to have to find some way to make it work so that we can, we can continue because there can t be another d-day like there one, the one there was 80 years ago. as you point out in the piece, america first, the term we hear from donald trump and his supporters, coined in the years leading up to one or two. i m so glad you are pointing to the heroism of so many black men who helped to liberate the beaches and treat the wounded on d-day. the military was desegregated by president truman three years after the end of world war ii largely because of the heroism we saw. president biden will meet with president volodymyr zelenskyy a short time from now before traveling back to normandy. meanwhile, the war in gaza rages on. the leader of hamas says he will only agree to the latest cease-fire proposal if israel commits to permanently ending the war in gaza. the statement made in response to the three phase plan president biden publicly until last week. under the proposal, phase two would be an end to the war. that is a sticking point for israel. far right drivers of israel s government say the conflict can only end once hamas is eradicated. dozens of people, meanwhile, including children, were killed in an israeli airstrike at a united nations school in gaza. it happened overnight thursday. the israeli military says it was targeting a hamas compound embedded in the school. the idf claims about 30 terrorists were using the classrooms at the base. the strike, however, drawing international criticism as gaza health officials say 40 people were killed. israel so far has only released the names of 9 terrorists it says died in the attack. meanwhile, the united states says it will wait and see what information israel releases about the strike before considering any action. the state department says it expects the idf to be fully transparent. this comes as the washington post reports a u.s. made bomb was used in the strike at that school. president biden addressed israel s war with hamas during an interview with abc news yesterday in normandy. the president says he believes pre-minister benjamin netanyahu has acknowledged concerns from the white house pointing to the way israel adjusted its strategy in russia. is benjamin netanyahu listening to you ? i think he s listening to me. they were going to go into rafah fullbore, invade all of rafah can go into the city, take it out, move with full force. they haven t done that. what they have done is they have agreed to a significant agreement that if, in fact, i must accept it, look, it is being backed by egypt, being backed by the saudis, being backed by almost of the home arab world. we will see. this is a very difficult time. richard hoss, he s right about who s backing it, everyone except the two parties involved in the war to have this cease-fire come about and perhaps an end to the war. hamas says it will not agree to the terms. israel says it will not agree to anything that does not include eradicating hamas as israel puts it. where does that leave us ? it was exactly a week ago today president biden went out and announced this three phase plan and the wait was represented a week ago that it was sent to the israel s plan and the idea was to get hamas to sign on. israel backed away from it, if they ever signed onto it to begin with. hamas, as you saw, has now said it won t accept a temporary cease-fire, which is phase one of the plan. it seems to have been stillborn. what we are looking at is the other part of the news this morning. you are going to have continued israeli military operations, inevitably, no matter how careful israel is, because of co-location of hamas with civilians, you will see this kind of stories you have for people, innocent people are going to be killed, along with hamas militants. my guess is we will see this for some time. this will go on, the israeli national security advisor said military operations will continue through the end of the year. i don t see any reason to doubt that. i think the real question is whether we see an escalation of fighting as things dial down somewhat in gaza in the north between israel and hezbollah. that has been the most recent news out of israel. the idea that we are on a precipice of peace somehow, actually, the opposite is more the reality. i hate to be so depressing this morning but i think we are looking at open ended but low level war in gaza with the danger of escalation in the north in southern lebanon. coming up, ed luce of the financial times, will tell us his new piece, titled biden respects the law, trump does not and what that could mean for the election. have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. joining us now for more u.s. national editor of the fund opens ed luce . your new piece is entitled what hunter biden tells about america. in it, you write the trump biden cases is a tale of two parties. biden could have spared his son his judicial ordeal by pardoning him, a tool that trump used for political associates who were jailed. if the president is breaking the system, he has a funny way of showing it. hunter biden may or may not merit jail time. ditto for trump in his hush money case. but these are mere sideshows. one of america s potential presidents respects the rule of law. the other does not. everything else pales in comparison. i think that is why wall street journal, article does when it was so frustrating because of the difference between these two candidates. the moral equivalence. we talked about you can look at that article versus donald trump for getting up world war ii existed, forgetting barack obama is not still president and then also you could just do, again, the false moral equivocation between january the sixth, the riot, trump s role in that and joe biden forgiving student loan debt. we get all these false comparisons. i ve got to say one of the most maddening has been donald trump stealing nuclear secrets versus hunter biden and whatever republicans decide at the time is a great risk to america s national security because of what hunter biden did. the key point here is america s system is working, it is intact. both donald trump last week and hunter biden in wilmington for the next couple of weeks are receiving trial by jury, due process, they will have the right of appeal. i ve no idea whether hunter biden will be convicted or acquitted but i do know that he has two cases against him. the second of which, the tax case starts on september the fifth at the beginning of the general election in california. biden could at any point to stop this from happening. he s not, he s not interfering. there is no rigging coming from this president. where it is coming from is the supreme court. we will get them later this month, presumably later this month. they might prevaricate even longer. later this month, finally coming down with their ruling on what should have been an open and shut case about whether the resident has immunity for whatever he does in office, thereby ensuring trump will not be held accountable for january 6th in court before november the fifth. that is the real story going on here. the trial is in wilmington. i have no great insight to what is going to happen there but the trial in wilmington is the rule of law taking its normal course, as was the case in new york last week. what is happening in the supreme court is judicial interference in the political process. so, ed, you have the gift of being able to look at america and american politics from the distance created by your birth. you are not from here. you weren t born here. so, when you look at it and you write about it, as you did today, and you mentioned the supreme court slowing things down, making it almost impossible for a trial in the january 6th or the papers kept at mar-a-lago, a trial for most things are happening prior to election and hunter biden on trial today in wilmington, what is your sense of what would happen to the system, and the rule of law if hunter biden is acquitted and what is your sense of what other countries, other nations think and view this when they look at what is happening in america? that is a great question. it is a remarkable moment that we are having. the first conviction of a former president and the first trial of a child of a sitting president happening in the space of a few days of each other. i have no doubt if hunter biden is convicted, there is not going to be an uproar on the democratic side, there isn t going to be accusations of bigoted justice, even though the judge is trump appointed, there s no reason to believe that judge is a hatchet job kind of charge. if, however, hunter biden is acquitted, all conspiratorial hell will break loose. you mentioned the other trump trial that isn t going to happen, the one in florida, the federal trial that judge aileen canon is in charge of. she is finding extraordinary time delaying tactics, once that nobody had ever thought of. the latest is whether the special prosecutor, smith, was unconstitutionally appointed and she s going to hear arguments about that. she is finding any and every excuse, including invented ones not to hear this case. it is an extraordinary example of justice delayed being justice denied. and, i think that is what foreigners are kind of gob smacked by when they watch this. it is, you bring up judge aileen canon in florida on the documents case, which is really one of the most serious cases against donald trump and resounding as well, given all the documents were hidden at mar-a-lago and he tried to hide them again as the government was trying to get them back. and, the, it is frustrating to see what is happening. it is also the judge that we got, the judge that is, in this case, the judge that was given this case. that is the way it goes. you will not hear, unlike on fox news, that this is a weapon based justice department. you will not hear, unlike on fox news, that somehow joe biden is up to this or donald trump is up to this and somehow he s polling the strings here. you will not hear that here because this is the judge we got and that is the way it goes with the rule of law. we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. break. the only migraine medication that 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will buy you a werewolf. the judge announced next month, steve bannon will start serving his time in prison. in prison? he looks like a guy who just got out of prison. steve bannon goes to prison on july 1st. it s too bad we will all miss out on something that summer beach body. former trump advisor steve bannon has been ordered to report to prison next month. the judge ruled yesterday steve bannon must begin his four month sentence on july 1st. a stay on bearman s sentence was lifted after his appeal in the case was denied. as nbc news reports, steve bannon could still appeal the ruling. he said yesterday his team plans to appeal all the way to the supreme court. we are going to go all the way to the supreme court if we have to. i want to say something specific about the justice department. merrick garland, lisa monaco, the entire justice department, they are not going to shut up trump, they are not going to shut up navarro, they are not going to shut up brandon and they are not going to shut up maga. steve bannon was found guilty in judge aileen canon force of defining subpoenas from the january 6th select committee. let s bring in nbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. this is always been, we will hear from president trump s on this interesting moment, as a personal attack, as president biden ordering his opponents to jail, except, when you don t answer a subpoena, no matter who you are in our society, just like if you cook the books at your organization to pay off an adult film star to stay quiet before the presidential election, there are consequences. there are indeed consequences. there is some connective tissue between this and the other case you mentioned, the recent conviction of former president trump. that can connective tissue is robert castillo, steve bannon s attorney and the attorney on whose advice he says he relied in ignoring that congressional subpoena. steve bannon wanted to argue, this was the crux of his appeal, that he was entitled to reasonably rely on bob castillo s advice that he should blow off the subpoena because trump was going to invoke executive privilege. the only problem with that is twofold. one, he was repeatedly advised by trump campaign lawyers that is not, in fact, what the former president intended to do for steve bannon, in part because steve bannon had been out of government for three years. the other problem is there is a 1961 case by the d.c. circuit this is where contempt charges are concerned, it is no defense to say i relied on the advice of counsel. it was that decision that a recent d.c. circuit panel reaffirmed and it is on that basis that yesterday, judge carl nichols of the d.c. district court said, you know, sir, vista longer presents substantial questions of law. i m going to the the state of your sentence and you need to report by july 1st. will come as no surprise to anyone that donald trump took to social media to really get this, calling it, a total and complete american tragedy that the duke joe biden department of justice is it is interesting. steve bannon has said he will appeal again and looking to push off the july 1st report date. tell us what mechanism that would be. is there a chance of success? or, is he going to go in july 1st ? steve bannon does not officially work for the trump campaign. he is an informal advisor and a large maga voice. if he goes in july 1st, he will be silenced for the stretch run of the collection. that is likely true when i think it is likely, if not highly probable he will go in july 1st. let s talk about his mechanisms for appeal. he can ask for a rehearing in the d.c. circuit. he has and june 24th to make that request. in all likelihood, they are not going to respond to that request before his july 1st reporting date. he can also file a petition with the supreme court but the deadline for him doing so comes after his july 1st date. either of those options, they could reimpose a state of his sentence. and i believe it is likely they are going to? i don t. i think steve bannon will, in all probability, serve that four month sentence and be silenced in the lead up to the election. that is particularly important because steve bannon was a huge voice for maga in the lead up to, and more importantly, after the 2020 election. there is still a phone call between donald trump and steve bannon on january 6th that no one has quite explained. up next, melinda french gates announces major donations for gender equality. our conversation with one of the recipients is straight ahead. ight ahead. curry from deep. that s caaaaaaaaash. i prefer the old intro! this is much better! i don t think so! steph, one more thing. the team owner gets five minutes a game. cash bros? woo! i like it. i ll break it to klay. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase, make more of what s yours. here s to getting better with age. here s to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, 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( ) start to get yourself back, with bimzelx. ask your dermatologist about bimzelx today. philanthropist melinda french gates has announced she will be donating $1 million over the next two years to support women s rights. in a guest essay for the new york times , french gates writes, in nearly 20 years as an advocate for women and girls, i ve learned that there will always be people who say it is not the right time to talk about gender equality . it is frustrating and shortsighted. decades of research on economics, well-being, and governance make it clear that investing in women and girls benefits everyone. one of the recipients of the great was the american institute for boys and men. joining us now is that organizations president, richard reeves. also with us, repressor of marketing at the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. good to have you both. richard, i will toss to you first and ask why this grant makes sense overall for women s rights. well, i think what melinda french gates has realized is that a world of floundering men is difficult to be a will to flourishing women. we do have to rise together. and, the young men and investing in education and mental health is going to be good for women. men and women will be raising children together. there s evidence that many young men are struggling in education and mental health, especially young men and men of color above all. i think it is a recognition that the gender equality movement has to expand to include boys and men as well. coming from figure with such prominence of melinda french gates was such a strong track record of leadership, i think it sends a strong signal that we do need to include boys and men in this conversation. to your point, scott galloway, you have been a great force on this on the state of young men in america right now. explain the challenges. equality doesn t necessarily mean that each side is the same. men and women have differences. what is happening to young men is equally, potentially as disturbing. could be with you and congratulations to my friend richard reeves. this is a great american story. unfortunately, young men are paying for the advantage that me and my father received. so, there is a lack of empathy. richard turned me onto this great quote, empathy is not a zero-sum game, civil rights didn t hurt white people. to richard s point, what he s always said he s who wants more economically and emotionally viable young men? women. women, of the tract, as they are doing, especially younger men, they are more prone to nationalist content, they are more prone to misogynistic content. you know, richard, it is so fascinating. maybe five years ago, when people like scott galloway three years ago were talking about this and a lot of people through their hands up, my god, how dare you talk about boys when men have been dominant through, you know, for thousands and thousands of years. you heard those complaints. on a very personal level but so much anecdotal evidence that i suspect a lot of people here in this are young women talking to mika and me going where are the men to date, where are the men that understand the basics? and, there s this horrible choice. on one side, you do have again, all anecdotal but you have, well, i m not going to wander into that minefield what i was about to say. let s just say younger women are understanding the costs of the mail crisis right now. they are living the cost. they are living the cost of it. what is interesting, these stories you say anecdotal but it is in the evidence, it is in the data. there is a big gender gap in college today than there was in the 70s. the biggest rise in suicide rates, tragically, has been among young men. we are losing 40,000 men a year to suicide. what i discovered is, among parents if you have a boy in the k-12 education system, you kind of get this immediately. if you have a doctor in the dating market, you kind of get this immediately too. and, realizing you just can t separate these things out and it is not a betrayal of the ideals of gender equality to start dealing with issues of boys and young men. it is the application of the ideals of gender equality. it is not a zero-sum game. i think that penny is dropping. the people are realizing we cannot neglect the problems of boys and men if we want a world that is better for all of us. i was particularly interested with what ms. gates has done. i salute her for it in terms of investing also in young boys and men and i think you or richard mentioned young boys and men of color. many of us in any study has shown disproportionately are raised by single mothers. i was one of them. to help those young boys and men that are buttressed by programs like yours, and to develop them, also helps the single mothers who are trying to balance life. talk about the challenge of that and how this could be helpful. reverend, you and i said that, we were raised by superheroes. my mother was an immigrant who lived and died a secretary, raced me on her own. what the research shows is the single point of failure, if you were to reverse engineer and why men are struggling is when they lose a male role model. the second most single-parent household, which is latin for a woman heading a household alone, just behind sweden. as richard s work has pointed out, the vast majority of people in primary school education are women. a boy is twice as likely to be suspended for the same behavior in school and five times as likely if he is black boy. would you have is an entire cohort of men being raised without male influence. what is equally interesting is girls have similar outcomes in single-parent households, same college attendance, same rates of self-harm. what richards research has shown is that while boys are physically stronger, they are mentally and emotionally weaker and we need to knowledge that. we need a group of thriving gunmen. how many times have we heard people say i know it time of young single women who are great and i can t find men for them. you can t find men for them, just not any man they want. we need to level up young people in general, specifically young men. coming up, historian doris kearns goodwin on how looking at america through a historical lens can help make sense of the issues facing our country today. try today. 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presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin. so good to have you with us. what a time. let s start with president biden making some of his most candid comments yet about former president trump s criminal conviction at a fundraiser in connecticut last night. the president called trump a convicted felon who stopped after the 2020 election. the president addressed the attacks trump and his allies have lobbed at the justice system. biden s of the former president, wants you to believe it is already. nothing could be further from the truth. it is reckless and dangerous for anyone to say it is rigged just because they don t like the outcome. biden added, the justice system is a core of american democracy and we should never allow anyone to tear it down. biden continued, here is what is becoming clearer and clearer every day. the threat trump poses in his second term would be greater than his first. this isn t the same trump that got elected in 2016. biden said, he is worse. doris, this is joe biden using the term convicted felon, a private fundraiser in connecticut, as john has been telling us, this is something we may hear more of from the biden campaign. they now officially are running against a man convicted of 34 felonies. how do you think that figures into the race ? every event affects the next event and i was going to think this project will affect how the conventions will happen. president trump has put out is we are a backward country, we are a country that is corrupt, we are a country that looks like a third world country and all of our systems are corrupt. i just don t think the american people are going to feel that way. one of the things i look at when i look at history is the backward look and the negative look as not working campaigns. i think biden understands that. when dragon was running against carter, carter talked about the malaise of the people, that it was a crisis of confidence in the people and we can comes along and says it s not the people, it s leadership that has failed and i am here to provide the leadership. the same thing happened when hoover talked about there s not much he could do about the depression because the government would weaken the people and he was going to hope we were getting through it somehow around the corner prosperity would come and fdr says it s not the people that is the problem, it is your leadership and i m going to do action. biden is on a good stand, in a certain sense, to talk about the rule of law, to talk about the country being a country that is not corrupt and to make that a contrast. i think this is going to be something, we don t know how. the debate could change everything, the conventions could change everything, events could change everything but right now, this will affect the tone of the campaign. this darkness, this dim view of the country presented by donald trump, this american carnage as he called it in his inauguration address way back. i guess it resonates with his base, it resonates with some people but the point you re making is you have to win more than your base to win an election. perhaps an optimistic message is the way to go for president biden. i think about the fact that when you are nominated, and he s about to be, you have to expand your base. i think back to 1964 in the republican convention and barry goldwater. what happens there is governor rockefeller, new york governor rockefeller, popular person in the party is trying to argue for a different platform, a civil rights platform. he gets shouted down and it all on television and it looks like the party has narrowed itself. they said in many ways, goldwater lost the election at that convention. when you do something like canceling larry hogan out, you need him, you need him in the senate and you are narrowing your party by saying you can t even say this verdict should be followed because it is a verdict that it is the rule of law. it hadn t even begun yet, he had said it before, it was a natural thing to say about our system. we have the moment you describe just from 1964. let s take a look. i would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. let me remind you also that moderation and the pursuit of justice is no virtue. doris, 1964 is really instructive. i will also say, obviously, fdr, a sense of optimism, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. the band play in happy days are here again. ronald reagan, it s morning in america. i truly believe america s greatest days lie ahead. it is always the optimism that rules the day. still ahead, legendary e street band guitarist steve van zandt on his remarkable life and career in music and show business. business. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. it s hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today. it s time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer s dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it s not dry food. it s not wet food. it s just real food. it s an idea whose time has come. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! it was a classic stephen production. yet one a man loves a woman. when i man loves a woman. it was way out of there. i did a good job and it worked. we were fans. stephen got married and bruce was the best man. it was the wedding band from the godfather. i heard it was really great. i don t remember a thing but that s what i heard. that was a look at the new documentary titled steve van zandt, disciple. the film follows the life of the musician and actor from his humble beginnings in new jersey to the apex of his one-of-a- kind career, performing along bruce pristine and james gandolfini in the sopranos. tuning is now, stevie van zandt, also the films director. i can t wait to see this. tell us why now, why did you decide this was the moment? he chased me for how long ? a long time, 2006 and years and years of trying to get, let me do this film. i m not comfortable being the center of attention. that is just a fact. i didn t even want to be in it at first. he s not in the early cut. you have to be in the movie. it would be hard to do without him in it. there s a lot of footage out there. anyway, they worked on it for two years before i agreed to be in it. i think, look, and and, we talked about what is the purpose of this thing and it is about the work. getting the work exposed as much as we can because, you know, that is one of the things i ve always had trouble balancing that art and commerce thing. can you explain how hard is it to explain the coordination of a band? you are in a big and, in a group of guys on stage in the synchronization of the shows always amaze me, you know what someone is going to do before they do it and you do your thing. well, we really have a long time. let s face it. that helps. a bit of esp goes on after a while. in the beginning, we had to be really good before we even got in the business. we had to be good life. that really, we had very high standards, growing up in the 60s. we had to compare ourselves to the beatles and the rolling stones and the who, very high standards. a lot of history, i think, bill got into it in the film. tell us exactly that. what are some of the things we will see, people who know stevie van zandt from the states or the screen, what are they going to see, what are they going to learn from this film ? telling them the whole breath and scope of the work and career and love of rock n roll is interesting. i think people may know him from television, from his acting, or they may know him for his music but they don t know he had the first branded satellite radio station, the first streaming television show. was a producer and writer and director. they may not know that the way, the things he does for education and they may not know his record label. there s so much to stevie van zandt beyond that music and we also get to expose the story of his amazing music, his friendship with bruce, his beautiful love story with his wife. he sees all thing. and then south africa. people may not know that silvio dante helped free nelson mandela and end apartheid. it is a pretty good resume. did you ever think from watertown, massachusetts to where you are today, the envelope you had to shoot through in terms of fate and lack is incredibly small. how often do you think about that ? about every hour. no doubt, we are the luckiest generation ever and i am the luckiest guy in the luckiest generation. i m so grateful, first of all that somebody would have an interest in making a movie about me. that is incredible already. i am honored that bill and the guys really spent their time doing that. destiny plays a role. if my mother hadn t remarried, my father adopted me and brought me from boston to new jersey, you know, i would have never gotten into the new jersey scene. if david chase hadn t happened to be clicking around, he wouldn t see me in dr. rascals and i want to get that guy on my new tv show the sopranos. there s a lot of detail in my book and i think bill, bill was, the conversations we had, i haven t seen the film myself at ceramic just to see what happens. you haven t seen it ? that is all the time we have this weekend. we will see you tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern for more morning joe. until then, enjoy the rest of your sunday. your sunday. good morning. it s sunday, june 9. i m alicia menendez. with michael steele and symone sanders townsend. we are following president biden on his final day in france and the appearance of his message