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>> you know, he is -- he's an interesting case. he's a person i think who is kind of stuck in the 1980s. you know, in the failed policies of that era. the notion that we want to, you know, get as many people as we can, put them in jail for as long as we can, and think that that in and of itself is the way to keep the american people safe without really looking at all of the things that have happened since then. >> do you -- does it strike you there's a contradiction between the way the president talks about the rule of law when it's people like rob porter, who was accused of domestic violence ...

Evidence of obstruction were he to do that? >> i'm not sure it would necessarily by itself constitute obstruction. the question would be what was his intent in doing so. but it would play into a narrative that i think leads one to conclude that the president probably has engaged in some obstructive behavior. >> james comey obviously making the rounds this week and someone that you worked with, had interactions with while in government. what is your assessment of his character and his truthfulness? >> i think he is a truthful person. i think he's a man of honor, a person of integrity. i think h...

>> i'm not going to deny that i talked with him. although i did -- i will say i never met him anywhere outside of cleveland. let's just say that much. >> the only time that you met him was in cleveland. >> i may have met him possibly, it might have been in cleveland. >> let me ask -- let me start with this. as mueller -- i know you talked to the fbi, right? >> absolutely, yes. >> which has been disclosed leaked to "the washington post"" that's been out there. >> so have they ever asked you about that meeting in the rnc? >> i told them a lot of everything i had essentially been doing for quite ...

Your life terrible, right? this dodgy dossier. >> that's what happened before the election, 45 days before the election, there's this is defamatory story that comes out. >> that's your perspective on this. i know that. i guess my only point is this march 2016 interview is happening before the dossier. >> right as a witness, yes. >> you talked to the fbi. other thing about this period of time that's a little confusing i want to clarify, the person puerto rican that you say brought you onto the campaign, new york state republican party official named cox, is that correct? >> chairman of the repu...

This dodgy dossier. >> that's what happened before the election, 45 days before the election, there's this is defamatory story that comes out. >> that's your perspective on this. i know that. i guess my only point is this march 2016 interview is happening before the dossier. >> right as a witness, yes. >> you talked to the fbi. other thing about this period of time that's a little confusing i want to clarify, the person puerto rican that you say brought you onto the campaign, new york state republican party official named cox, is that correct? >> chairman of the republican party here. >> sam n...