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But there's a great deal of anxiety the president might feel about what mcgahn has to say. for that nar ffb to be spelled out in a written report, it's another thing entirely to have a national television spectacle of the former white house counsel before congress answering these questions under oath and getting in, frankly, into more detail than we read in the mueller report. >> that's right. barb, another matter for you to take on and that is this financial ruling by a federal judge today. now, this it seems to me as a civilian is different. this is an accounting firm. perhaps they're not go...

One. >> he's tried to be both a loyalist and an institutionalist, and he's continuing to try to do both of those things and he's finding it difficult. he certainly doesn't want to be in this moment where he has to choose sides and take orders from a white house he no longer serves. but there's a great deal of anxiety the president might feel about what mcgahn has to say. for that nar ffb to be spelled out in a written report, it's another thing entirely to have a national television spectacle of the former white house counsel before congress answering these questions under oath and getting in,...

>> well, i don't see it -- i don't go as far as certainly jeff does with these analogies with other countries. i think it is important to start out by saying i agree the president shouldn't be making these statements. i consider it inappropriate. and also works against his interests. anything the justice department does after making statements of that kind does fall into this nar ffb, and it's onfair narrative when the president says he wants them to investigate. putting that aside, many people in this country believe that the russians not only influenced thelection but may have influenced bef...